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+---- Thread: Fighters should be fun... (/showthread.php?tid=5119)
Fighters should be fun... - Yngen - 12-23-2007
' Wrote:1. Yngens numbers are not correct, because each shield bat and nanobot has a regen capacity of 300.
Example1: VHF with 10000 hull and 70 bots, without armour upgrade.
70 bots x 300 = 21000 capacity. Gives a bit more than double the hull regen.
Example2: VHF with 10000 hull and 70 bots, with armour upgrade 25000 hull.
The whole bot capacity will be lower than to regenerate the hull one time fully.
I'm also convinced, the armour upgrades don't work as they should.
Nevertheless, the fights are quite long and will be, because many players will just evade enemy fire, til their shields are backed up automatically.
Respectful
AoM
Original post corrected, thank you.
Well maybe reducing nanobot counts isn't the solution. However I'm getting the general impression from everyone here that fighter battles are taking too long. A lot of you haven't been in this community very long so you don't have the benefit of reflecting on how this place has progressed. Fighter battles on the whole are getting lengthier over time because the overall skill level of all the members is increasing. Compared with one year ago there are maaaany more skilled pilots here. So rather than a marathon dog fight being a rare event its now becoming common place.
And I dislike the notion of telling someone they should just deal with the length of a battle and retreat when they run out of time. I'd rather my retreats be for a role playing reason. This mod is in danger of becoming inconvenient. Our server already requires extra time spent on the forums aside from playing in game, why make playing the game that much longer?
@ Spear:
"A) You are evenly matched.
B) One or both of you are laggy.
C) You took the wrong load-out to the wrong battle.
D) One of the players is simply dodging and not actually trying to fight, a player who does this properly can survive almost indefinatley and is annoying as hell (I dodge and evade when I am outnumbered badly but I still try to work an attack angle to strike my weakest opponent). "
a) yes, and its happening quite often lately
b) occasionally, but on the whole not true
c) Beautiful, except the RP-police tell me I can have only one loadout. Had I the choice of all the weapons in the game my fights would probably be much shorter
d)Absolutely right, and whats more that person who is flying around evading is playing the carrot on the stick while his buddies are shooting up my tail pipe...oh and they are feeding more nanos and bats to him as I shave his hull away slowly.
Maybe we do need a rule against nano trading during a fight?
Fighters should be fun... - Epholl - 12-23-2007
Nano trading rule wont help I think... No more rules...
Fighters should be fun... - chopper - 12-23-2007
' Wrote:Nano trading rule wont help I think... No more rules...
WRONG!!!!
It will help very much, if properly implemented.
I have nothing against Fighter giving bots/bats to another fighter.
But, here is an example.
We are having a 3v3 fighter fight.
Enemy battleship comes. It is too strong for 3 fighters to take him down.
He gives bots/bats to all enemies, even though we spend 1 whole hour trying to kill 1 of them, he got bots/bats from his fighter buddies, which is ok, but when all were on like 1/3 of bots/bats, Battleship comes and we have no way to win that battle.
Simple as that.
No way to kill anyone. Not a single one.
Because, BS has like 800-1000 bots/bats, he can feed them whole day long.
Rule about this would help a lot. Capital ships shouldn't feed fighters with bots/bats.
It is boring.
And actually, i have to agree with Treewyrm.
No one gave one good reason why fighter weapons shouldn't be a bit faster.
You all know the speed of Gunboat guns. And fighters can still dodge them very easy!
So, +100 speed for all weapons would not mess up the balance that much.
Just a thought.
Fighters should be fun... - bluntpencil2001 - 12-23-2007
Bot-feeding is a legit tactic. Hence repair ships.
Fighters should be fun... - chopper - 12-23-2007
I'm not saying it's not legit, i'm saying it's prolonging battles even more.
Get a Repair Ship, and feed them. At least it won't shoot us + feed.
Fighters should be fun... - Epholl - 12-23-2007
Continuing like this you wont have a PvP where you didnt break any rule.....
Fighters should be fun... - bluntpencil2001 - 12-23-2007
' Wrote:I'm not saying it's not legit, i'm saying it's prolonging battles even more.
Get a Repair Ship, and feed them. At least it won't shoot us + feed.
The thing is, ships like Battleships are supposed to have repair facilities. There are dockable NPC ones, remember? The bot feeding is a good way of representing the fact that it's a mobile base for fighters, without relying on buggy docking on player battleship mods.
Fighters should be fun... - Panzer - 12-23-2007
It's already too dense with rules - last time It almost ended up with a flame fest, because one GMG wasn't sure about one thing...
Anywho - rules aren't the solution. Feeding bots is okay, provided the supplier is IN combat one way or another. Nothing like a generous, "dead" or "neutral" spectator.
How to execute that - no idea... scanning is quite... erm... inconvenient during a dodgy dogfight. oh and... PROVE IT.
Fighters should be fun... - chopper - 12-23-2007
Yup, no way to prove it. At least I couldn't last (and only) time that happened.
Anyway, can i dock on a friendly NPC BS in the middle of the fight then?:P
Ok, if that is not the solution, then i guess we move to the increasing weapons speed.
100+ wouldn't make much of a difference for the ballance, right? But it can help.
Fighters should be fun... - Spear - 12-23-2007
' Wrote:@ Spear:
"A) You are evenly matched.
B) One or both of you are laggy.
C) You took the wrong load-out to the wrong battle.
D) One of the players is simply dodging and not actually trying to fight, a player who does this properly can survive almost indefinatley and is annoying as hell (I dodge and evade when I am outnumbered badly but I still try to work an attack angle to strike my weakest opponent). "
a) yes, and its happening quite often lately
b) occasionally, but on the whole not true
c) Beautiful, except the RP-police tell me I can have only one loadout. Had I the choice of all the weapons in the game my fights would probably be much shorter
d)Absolutely right, and whats more that person who is flying around evading is playing the carrot on the stick while his buddies are shooting up my tail pipe...oh and they are feeding more nanos and bats to him as I shave his hull away slowly.
Maybe we do need a rule against nano trading during a fight?
OK..
A) Overall increased skill is a good thing and a good player can still be brought down quickly if lady fortune is on your side.
B) Your view I disagree with here. While lag should not be considered a factor for RP, during PVP it is a huge exploit. Warping jumping around the screen impossible to hit players do exist. On many servers on many online games players are auto-booted for this. While unfair on those with poorer connections or living in the back of beyond it is also equally unfair on the person who pays hard earned cash to go online and experience an evenly matched encounter. While not a popular opinon I would like to see laggers booted, sorry guys!
C) I also RP several Xenos Yngen and while some are all black widows, 1 is 2 NOMAD Blasters, 2 CODES and 2 missile launchers. I see nothing wrong with this load-out in an RP sense as whats good for every other faction out there is good for a Xeno. You are already at a disadvantage in a vanilla ship that takes more missile/torp damage than it should.
D) Ok here we come to the crunch. This is about a battle you fought with Bernodette between 4 LSF fighters (I was one of them). You doggedly chased LSF GLadiator to the point of destruction and I transfered all my bots/bats and Nuke mines to Gladiator and it was I that told him to lead you in lines. Yes he was the carrot on a stick, and you bought it! I went through that entire fight with no regens or ammo as you refused to give up on Gladiator. Would it be good RP to simply let you destroy my comrade? Is it good leadership not to instruct one of my trained pilots in the best way to deal with you? Trading bots is a tatic used by many and you are complaing from a bot trade from another fighter, not a constant trade from a Battleship standing by the fight.
I have been anoyed in the past by bot trading from battleships, but a bot trade from another fighter in the same battle? Even then using a battleship in this way is still a legitimate tatic IMHO.