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+--- Thread: there is a annoying loophole for re-engaging.. (/showthread.php?tid=5489)
there is a annoying loophole for re-engaging.. - X-Lancer - 01-13-2008
' Wrote:wanna know whats funny eh, this happened to one of my RoS boys a while back but it was on the RM's side that done it. and it was ros's fault now if tbh do it to rm its tbh's fault not so sportsmanship now eh.
PLEASE..DO NOT try to say whoes fault is this...let's make the rules better...more clear.
there is a annoying loophole for re-engaging.. - Equinox - 01-13-2008
Ok this is getting stupid.
Im the NovaPG that was there last night, i didn't post here because its been a secret char ive had for ages but i did pm frozen as soon as i noticed this thread so i wasn't trying to get out of it just because you forgot the name..
Here is what happened from my point of view.
Some guy in a battlecrusier was being annoying following me everywhere i went, then you showed up with him in your RepEx char.
We start to fight and then TBH shows up and starts to fight aswell i don't change target to TBH char because i realized this was my best chance of taking the Battlecruiser out..
Shortly after he dies and for about another 10 minutes i carry on fighting the battlecruiser and the RepEx fighter.
In that time TBH had gone to new Berlin but i didn't no that, when i died i undocked and left the system at the nearest exit new Berlin JH.
On reaching the other side i noticed that TBH char was being attacked, there was also 2 LC gunboats and another independent in a bigger ship and one of them fire on me, i engage the Gunboat at which point the battlecruiser leaves.
I carried on attacking the 2 LC gunboats till both was dead at which point the Brotherhood pilot was badly damaged and trying to get back to Sig 13 with no one else to engage i headed back to dock and log of.
Im sure if TBH and me where left after everything we would have fought but i took out the char's that posed the most threat to me at that time.
If theres 2 hostiles who's to say which one should i attack first?.
It should be noted i did not engage any of the 2 people that killed me in sig 13, the 2 i attacked in new Berlin where 2 different players altogether.
Thats about it, if there was a rule broken in there i will take my punishment.
I will add that for the 6 months ive been here ive never broke any rules and try my hardest to keep it that way.
Yes the rule is kinda messed up but you knowing went after TBH pilot after killing him in sig 13 then moan that he got a chance to repair, you could have quite simply docked somewhere and repaired/rearm yourself before going after him.
I wont post in this thread again, ill just let the admins decide.
there is a annoying loophole for re-engaging.. - X-Lancer - 01-13-2008
' Wrote:Oi, Lancer. If this was "about the rules" then file it in as a sanction report.
Not much will be done though, i think. Since youve got alot of proof.
nah.i want everyone's opinion on the re-engage rules..is it good for now or still need to make more better and clearer.
there is a annoying loophole for re-engaging.. - Equinox - 01-13-2008
' Wrote:i said..when i come back to New Berlin...he is not there....but when i fight TBH for awhile..he comes to New Berlin..then engage me...
You seem to contradict yourself m8, earlier you said i never fired on you in new Berlin which i didnt so don't lie.
there is a annoying loophole for re-engaging.. - X-Lancer - 01-13-2008
' Wrote:Ok this is getting stupid.
Im the NovaPG that was there last night, i didn't post here because its been a secret char ive had for ages but i did pm frozen as soon as i noticed this thread so i wasn't trying to get out of it just because you forgot the name..
Here is what happened from my point of view.
Some guy in a battlecrusier was being annoying following me everywhere i went, then you showed up with him in your RepEx char.
We start to fight and then TBH shows up and starts to fight aswell i don't change target to TBH char because i realized this was my best chance of taking the Battlecruiser out..
Shortly after he dies and for about another 10 minutes i carry on fighting the battlecruiser and the RepEx fighter.
In that time TBH had gone to new Berlin but i didn't no that, when i died i undocked and left the system at the nearest exit new Berlin JH.
It should be noted i did not engage any of the 2 people that killed me in sig 13, the 2 i attacked in new Berlin where 2 different players altogether.
Thats about it, if there was a rule broken in there i will take my punishment.
I will add that for the 6 months ive been here ive never broke any rules and try my hardest to keep it that.
Yes the rule is kinda messed up but you knowing went after TBH pilot after killing him in sig 13 then moan that he got a chance to repair, you could have quite simply docked somewhere and repaired/rearm yourself before going after him.
I wont post in this thread again, ill just let the admins decide.
On reaching the other side i noticed that TBH char was being attacked, there was also 2 LC gunboats and another independent in a bigger ship and one of them fire on me, i engage the Gunboat at which point the battlecruiser leaves.
I carried on attacking the 2 LC gunboats till both was dead at which point the Brotherhood pilot was badly damaged and trying to get back to Sig 13 with no one else to engage i headed back to dock and log of.
Im sure if TBH and me where left after everything we would have fought but i took out the char's that posed the most threat to me at that time.
If theres 2 hostiles who's to say which one should i attack first?.
you shooted a nova at me..then i run..because i know i don't have enough supply to fight...i can't go dock and come back and fight..because i am already fighting with TBH.cause a trader is telling me he is doing piracy...if i against 1 bomber..my shield should recharge fully between that bomber's energy recharge time..but i find out there is 2 bombers attacking me while i aiming at TBH..and i find that out that is you..then i run..and i know you jumped to New Berlin is not on purpose it just an accident after i read your post...so let's focus on should we change the re-engage rules or not..
there is a annoying loophole for re-engaging.. - Equinox - 01-13-2008
' Wrote:you shooted a nova at me..then i run..because i know i don't have enough supply to fight...i can't go dock and come back and fight..because i am already fighting with TBH.cause a trader is telling me he is doing piracy...if i against 1 bomber..my shield should recharge fully between that bomber's energy recharge time..but i find out there is 2 bombers attacking me while i aiming at TBH..and i find that out that is you..then i run..and i know you jumped to New Berlin is not on purpose it just an accident after i read your post...so let's focus on should we change the re-engage rules or not..
Your mistaken i never fired anything at you which is the RepEx fighter right? if so i know i didn't fire on you.
' Wrote:you shooted a nova at me..then i run..because i know i don't have enough supply to fight.
You did not run in new Berlin, if you did you came back at the end which would mean you reengaged. Because you where there after the 2 gunboats where taken out (which was the end of the fight) which would imply you ran and came back?
there is a annoying loophole for re-engaging.. - tfmachad - 01-13-2008
At this point we can pretty much forget about blaming anyone of anything other than being unable to provide hard evidence other than their own testimony. If the parts involved can't agree in what has happened there's no way we, parts not involved, will ever know what really happened.
I'll get back to the subject of the alleged rule deficiency. Also, I'd like to state that I'm completely ignoring this one event as to decide and point if there was any rule broken or not. Any resemblance with what has happened (at this point there's no way telling)
Quote:5.10 A player who was killed in a PvP fight must not re-engage the enemy (player or players involved in the death) with any of the characters on his/her account(s) for 4 hours.I think the problem is not about the rule in itself, but about a literal interpretation of it. See, some may treat re-engagement as firing on the guy until his shield downs to 50% of it's maximum (or original state for that matter). So, if I down a ship in a system and come back to another system to find it trespassing my characters RP boundaries, say I'm lawful and the guy is pirating inside another one of my ZoI's systems. Even though he may not be breaking a rule at the light of that literal interpretation, it is still an aggression per se.
If I'm lawful and down a pirate in Colorado and move to New York to find him pirating again my role requires me to re-engage, I cannot ignore that and, to be honest, he shouldn't be doing it in the first place. He's not directly re-engaging me and he's not in the same system where he was killed, but in an RP stance, he is to blame for re-engaging, since he's pretty much forcing me to go after him again. Not very long ago the whole community was bashing a Corsair character that was doing pretty much the same thing in Liberty.
One thing that has happened multiple times to me is this: I down one character's ship and start fighting his wingman. A few minutes later the first character gets back to my peripheral view (scanners range). I can't trust the guy won't suddenly start shooting at me again, so I have to divide my attention and I'll have to control my current opponent's nano and batt stock to see if the first guy ain't resupplying the second.
If he did any of those there would be a clear rule violation. But let's say new forces arrive and the fight moves to the next system. Now the second guy comes again and starts shooting the new forces, completely avoiding me. Still, even though this may be a slight loophole in the rules, he should be avoiding any interaction with my character, even though he's not directly firing at me he's now in the same furball I'm in, worse yet, he's getting back to the same fight through a very small but existent loophole.
Quote:5.11 After a death in a PvP fight, players are recommended to switch to other characters (preferably with different role-playing status) for no less than 4 hours.
That's when this recommendation comes in handy. This was made a recommendation and not a requirement to allow people to continue playing their characters provided they understand that character now has a few limitations as to where it may go and who they can meet/interact for a period of four hours. This is pretty much the source of the loophole. If instead of 'recommended' it said 'obliged' this could be settled real quick, but it wouldn't be nice to a lot of people. If anyone remembers the rules' revision, that was made as such so people could still have some fun with their characters, even though they "died". I'd pretty much like to see people paying more attention to this.
As the letter of the rules go, there's a lot of loopholing to find not to blame anyone. But as the spirit of the rules go, there were violations left and right.
So, Lancer, after a fashion you're right. There's a tiny little loophole in the rules as they are right now, but that loophole was left on purpose so people still could have a little fun and had the opportunity to play the game lightheartedly. The real big issue is that people shouldn't exploit that loophole.
EDIT: Thinking about it more carefully I'd say incidents like those can be accounted for Out of Roleplay behaviour. There's no roleplay whatsoever allowing yourself being seen 'dead' by the very same people who killed you.
there is a annoying loophole for re-engaging.. - X-Lancer - 01-13-2008
' Wrote:You seem to contradict yourself m8, earlier you said i never fired on you in new Berlin which i didnt so don't lie.
i said i didn't fire on you after i find out you are in New Berlin...actually i were looking at you..i didn't fire on both..i was expecting you guys fight each other and i am just going to sit and watch...well..may be i didn't saying the thing correctly....
there is a annoying loophole for re-engaging.. - Othman - 01-13-2008
' Wrote:who complained about Xenos?:nono:.....i was there and no Xeno worked with liberty forces...i repeat....Xeno biggest enemies are junkers and junkers work with outcasts. Both are enemies to any normal xeno...not to mention they are foreigners...favorite xeno targets...Well said Doom, Xenos fought with honor to protect Liberty from Outcast infiltration that day which indeed should not be interpreted as a cooperation of them and Liberty Forces. We continued our fight with individual Xenos near Buffalo after dissenting the Outcasts and Rogues in the area.
We fought even NovaPG in Colorado cause of the same reason...Xenos are Libertians and they love their home and will defend it from foreign enemies...so expect to be attacked from Xenos to if u come to attack Liberty as outcast...
there is a annoying loophole for re-engaging.. - X-Lancer - 01-13-2008
' Wrote:Your mistaken i never fired anything at you which is the RepEx fighter right? if so i know i didn't fire on you.
You did not run in new Berlin, if you did you came back at the end which would mean you reengaged. Because you where there after the 2 gunboats where taken out (which was the end of the fight) which would imply you ran and came back?
actually you did fire a nova on me and i did run...the TBH said "let him run"...if i didn't run.i will die in that fight.....i docked at Planet New Berlin..i tell RepEx to backoff and let you guys against each other....and i just logoff because my mon is yelling at me to let me go to sleep....