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+--- Thread: Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd. (/showthread.php?tid=76319)
Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd. - dodike - 03-11-2012
I liked vanilla Nomads much more.
Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd. - Laerethe - 03-11-2012
' Wrote:I know /restart nomad would be easier and shoot without any word even better. But the ship is enough for any nomad RP you need if you are not feeling like joining the official faction. I actually never wanted to join the keepers, becouse the nomad morph is enough for my fun.
The line " you cannot do anywhere but the shrine" should be removed cause the nomads are rephacked friendly towards you, so the bases are green too.
Believe me, you wont have problems with selfdefence when you enter any order space and three gunboats want to eat you as soon you appear on their scanners.
There are Khara and wild players around, but when you dont look for them you wont find them either.
I don't find them when I look for them, either. I don't meant to offend any players, just speaking from my experience on my characters, including Order, Bounty Hunter, Corsairs and Outcasts.
What you say about the Shrine is only logical. I would also suggest that it is illogical for you to enter Unknown in Kansas and exit in Pennysylvania. Perhaps add another jumphole to Iota/99, or nearby? There is no real forward base for Nomad incursions; Wild have their jumphole to Newcastle, but I don't know much about others, so forgive me if I am mistaken.There is a risk of morons trying to use it as a shortcut, but a few powerful weapons platforms can deal with that.
' Wrote:I essentially agree with everything you said here. The ZoI guidelines are basically what I had in mind - more freedom for the K'Hara, more restrictions for indies. However, indies may pilot whatever ship they want without the K'Hara's permission. Keep the caps in the Omicrons (and in some designated Omega Systems).
I agree that they can pilot them without the K'hara's permission; what I meant was that to take caps further from core Nomad worlds(i.e into Kappa/Gamma, and further into housespace), they would have to be accompanied by K'hara players who have signed off on the invasion.
' Wrote:Megiddo and Apotheosis, everything you said is interesting but here comes the question for the community: "If you are so interested to become a nomad why dont you join the official faction which is not hard?"
Excuse me but this thread looks like:
The nomad faction was always looking for quiality of the RP before quantity of the players inside. Every nomad player is responsible to bring interesting, original and creative RP. Do you belive indies can do that? Then why there are so few morphs? Do you need nomad battleship to RP better?
Sadly most of the time, like Altaris stated in his post, people are going "engubinging nomdz" or simply have no time to RP with a nomad which gives no need for a nomad player to stay afk in system A or travel all over sirius looking for 1 guy which will RP with him.
The RP with the nomad is long and it depends on the player you are RP-ing with. That is the general issue why there are so few nomads out there just because, as Altaris stated, there are few people willing to RP with them.
So if you belive that the open nomad ID is going to be for good, none of khara members belive that because:
- The ID will probably get changed or a second ID will be created
- The ships will get even more nerfs making them RP platforms not pvp weapons
- The lolz encounters with indie nomads will ruin the expectations of the community when they see a nomad on their scanners.
- The faction "misterious" RP and lore will be changed in to "another pvp faction"
- Nomad indie separate "clans" will probably be created raiding "gama everyday"...
As Akura stated in his post, the nomads in disco are far more different than the vanilla nomads. Their goals, their actions and their "behaviour" is different.
Speaking of activity: Its not that bad .
And in the end it is up to the community if they want to see/RP/fight with nomads. Show interest and you will have your RP with a nomad.
Who says I want to be a Nomad? Granted, I'd probably make a character to fool around in, as I'm going to do with The Coalition, but I'd rather partake in the united offensives against the Nomads. Everybody wants to try out ships, right? Fun for all.
I agree that RP is a crucial point... but there simply aren't enough Nomads doing enough to fulfil this.
The ships will always maintain slightly 'better' weaponry; it is crucial to lore, and its the same difference as comparing CODENAME weaponry to Class 9 faction weapons.
Roleplay will be fiercely meditated by K'hara; this will promote activity, as will the increase in fellow Nomads to go pewpewing with.
The faction will never be a 'PvP' faction, simply because of the limitations that we are suggesting. You won't be getting random Nomad battleships taking Manhattan(unless it is part of a chain of specific roleplay originating from the K'hara). Most of the pewpewing will be in deep Omicrons, promoting Hunter and Order activity. Currently, the Order have little to do with all their caps, aside from occasional attacks from Hunters and Navy. This can't be right, seeing as their creation was due to Nomads; they should be fighting back STRONGER, to avenge the destruction of their homeworld.
I have already proposed that indie Nomad factions be disallowed, so that is a moot point, and raids on Gamma would be limited to smaller ships.
The Nomads aren't different; they still want their sector back, achievable through similar aims. Proof of this is the destruction of Toledo.
Also, indies are human too. i see many strong indie roleplayers in House systems and the Corsairs. Stop making assumption that are simply tripe
It seems to me that you are just making incorrect assumptions, and failing to read properly; I mean, you're speaking abut issues that have already been discussed and solutions reviewed. Nothing personal.
Surely you can't deny that something needs to be done?
Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd. - Rmorph - 03-11-2012
' Wrote:Megiddo and Apotheosis, everything you said is interesting but here comes the question for the community: "If you are so interested to become a nomad why dont you join the official faction which is not hard?"
THe Khara lore is some of the richest and most vivid on the server - but if I'm looking to create good encounters for other players (my motive behind flying nomad trial) then I don't need a full K'hara setup.
I am looking for a way to add the extra alien aspect to the server without having to prove my, or any other players rp value.
I'm 37, and have been in and out of different rp clubs for 30 years, and: I'm sure this is actually a pretty common sentiment: I wont join a faction where there is a recruitment process, as I find it a direct intrusion upon my rp experience to follow an rp beuaracracy.
This is freelancer - not strings-attached-lancer (understanding and sticking to lore is another thing entirely -- I will do this to the best of my ability).
To put this is context: If I'm rolling barbarian in AD&D I'll stay true to Barbarian, but please don't expect me to sign up to the Barbarian union, and sign up for the barbarian newsletter.
If I'm gonna fly alien, then I fly alien cos I am alien.
So....
I have a nomad trial and it suits fine.. some of my best rp experiences have been in my little lf.
My desires are the same for every other player playing with a ship type:
I want more of my kind in the sky. I want more firepower to take on bigger targets.
I wish I had the opportunity to attack without provocation, for the sake of rp, rather than against it... wading into fistfights as I see fit.
Don't get me wrong: I am by no means a pew pewer, and consider myself highly motivated on the rp side.
Here's the thing:
Nomads don't need an extensive RP background or motive, except to (and of course this is not a trivial thing:) en-richen the playing experience of those that play them.
They are already defined as sirius-wide enemies. From an RP-context very few factions would need a seconds hesitation before blowing a nad from the sky, whatever their motives or aspirations.
So from an RP perspective, nomad belligerence and aggression is already very well defined and explained. No further intro required.
I play my nomad as a powercrazed little shrimp looking for outcast minds to bend - and then sending them into the fray at my bidding. I don't need a faction with a million years of alien philosophy or lore to do that further.
I would like there to be more encounters like that: I want to meet nomads while I'm trading, while I'm mining... I want to be rescued by order and have to run in convoys cos we are passing through alien space.
On this small server the only way to do that is make Nomad the default player ship for pew-hungry players. Its that simple.
On a side note, I think theres been a general assumption that reducing the dialog capabilities of the player is a reduction of rp, and that (we who are arguing for an opening up) are motivated because we simply want to have pew pew on the server: I don't agree with either notion.
We must simply accept that there are many types of roleplay on the server - many player philosophies, and many ways of playing..
A lot of players will fulfill the bare minimum of rp requirements, cos frankly they are not interested in the richer type of playing.. this leads to frustrating encounters all over the place currently
I argue that we cannot stop this behavior, but that we should consider channeling it into the one role where it actually makes sense.
Nomad has been limited to a rp-centric defend-only role, when it is inherently the most belligerent type of role on the server, and should be the most combat prone.
Nomad is in the hands of a few dozen players, which has limited its impact server wide. With full respect to those players that are driving K'hara, and the Wilde, this is a bit of shame.
I sincerely wish them the best of luck and I hope this changes.
Not sure if this helps or leads to further argument, but thanks for your replies so far. Obviously this is an interesting topic for lots of people.
Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd. - Dratai - 03-11-2012
For my two cents.
this might just hammer another nail in disco's line-threading coffin.
Another set of character variations that will become less effort-craven.
Namely pewpew.
Now just with better ships.
Just because a character doesn't speak (coherently), doesn't mean you don't want to put in some afterthought in it.
Mmhm
Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd. - Laerethe - 03-11-2012
' Wrote:For my two cents.
this might just hammer another nail in disco's line-threading coffin.
Another set of character variations that will become less effort-craven.
Namely pewpew.
Now just with better ships.
Just because a character doesn't speak (coherently), doesn't mean you don't want to put in some afterthought in it.
Mmhm
We're not promoting mindless pewpew, we're promoting activity in arguably the richest lore of the entire game.
Who's to say that the coffin isn't already nailed? What if this is the hammer, pulling them out.
Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd. - FallenKnight - 03-11-2012
' Wrote:If I'm gonna fly alien, then I fly alien cos I am alien.
Rmorph, I get your point but that what I quoted is the only thing you need to "prove" in order to join, not some kind of special powers or super RP. You and all who are interested to join the nomads need to fly like nomads. Once that is done you are in. Is that so hard?
You said a lot of good things so I will recommend you to join and fly with us.
Here comes the other part: I dont know if you were familiar with the time when "keepers" were open faction. Yes that period was one of the biggest lolz in nomad history in disco. All our members didnt want to go to play because of the lolz.
Examples can be many but I will give you just few to understand why the general idea of making this faction open is totaly wrong:
1. Player "De***" - Nomad battleship in Iota - "Hai guys can I come with you for pew in NY?"
2. Player "X" - nomad morph - "Its hart for me to say english so can U write the recruting test for me plz? I know dont english.:("
3. Player "K'Hara|****" - fake one in NY - "engaging police and navy"
4. Player "***" - FL IFF, Nephthys ship, nomad blasters, Corsair ID. After few lines of RP he said: " Stop talk. Tell me where to get the nomad battleship and stuff"
5. Player "**" - a hunter in sigma-13 who arrived on scanner range - "alien! Engaging"
6. Player "Y" - indie morph, probably a new player but - "***Assisting Nomads***" "***Die***"
7. Player "YX" - in kyushu, watching a nomad gunboat. 1 min later in system chat - "Pirate in sector ..."
and much much more.
My points are:
- Yes there are indi morphs who deserve to be in K'Hara but they dont want to join for unknown reasons.
- Yes there are indie morphs who dont deserve to even have a morph.
- Yes there are a lot of players who are interested in the nomads but:
-- They are doing nothing to help the faction
-- Complaining and whining why the nomad faction is closed cuz that dont allow their 2 pvp friends to make lolducks and gank anyone with minimal RP
When there is a ready faction with lore, members, and low activity then why dont you help it instead of requesting to make it open?
Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd. - Laerethe - 03-11-2012
' Wrote:Rmorph, I get your point but that what I quoted is the only thing you need to "prove" in order to join, not some kind of special powers or super RP. You and all who are interested to join the nomads need to fly like nomads. Once that is done you are in. Is that so hard?
You said a lot of good things so I will recommend you to join and fly with us.
Here comes the other part: I dont know if you were familiar with the time when "keepers" were open faction. Yes that period was one of the biggest lolz in nomad history in disco. All our members didnt want to go to play because of the lolz.
Examples can be many but I will give you just few to understand why the general idea of making this faction open is totaly wrong:
1. Player "De***" - Nomad battleship in Iota - "Hai guys can I come with you for pew in NY?"
2. Player "X" - nomad morph - "Its hart for me to say english so can U write the recruting test for me plz? I know dont english.:("
3. Player "K'Hara|****" - fake one in NY - "engaging police and navy"
4. Player "***" - FL IFF, Nephthys ship, nomad blasters, Corsair ID. After few lines of RP he said: " Stop talk. Tell me where to get the nomad battleship and stuff"
5. Player "**" - a hunter in sigma-13 who arrived on scanner range - "alien! Engaging"
6. Player "Y" - indie morph, probably a new player but - "***Assisting Nomads***" "***Die***"
7. Player "YX" - in kyushu, watching a nomad gunboat. 1 min later in system chat - "Pirate in sector ..."
and much much more.
My points are:
- Yes there are indi morphs who deserve to be in K'Hara but they dont want to join for unknown reasons.
- Yes there are indie morphs who dont deserve to even have a morph.
- Yes there are a lot of players who are interested in the nomads but:
-- They are doing nothing to help the faction
-- Complaining and whining why the nomad faction is closed cuz that dont allow their 2 pvp friends to make lolducks and gank anyone with minimal RP
When there is a ready faction with lore, members, and low activity then why dont you help it instead of requesting to make it open?
1. He's in Iota, no trouble. K'hara aren't obliged to take him on invasions.
2. You get people who can't speak English well everywhere. What is your point? If he screws up roleplay and is always a pain, you can remove him.
3. Faction tag locks deal with that, and he'll get FR5ed/sanctioned etc.
4. Nerf, potential sanction.
5. I don't understand the problem. All Houses understand the threat.
6. Acceptable, so long as the "***Assisting Nomads***" "***Die***"" is replaced with the presets suggested.
7. Don't understand the problem, aside from the Nomad should be aggressively attacking.
You're making up partially esoteric and isolated circumstances to back up flawed arguments. These aren't arguments against an open faction, these are arguments behind closing the goddamn server; banning these 'lolwuts' and the like. Why should we discriminate?
There are individuals who wish to join but are rejected.
There individuals who don't 'deserve' them, but a) who are you to judge? And b) That's not up to you.
People don't have the opportunity to help the faction.
You seem to think that all we want to do is get the 'over-powered' equipment and go pewpewing, when this simply isn't the case. Morph believes in strong roleplay, and I wish to roleplay it from a non-Nomad side, so take your silly convictions elsewhere.
What do suggest we do? Message them and so 'Activity is low, you need to do something about it.'?
Several have contributed here and they themselves had suggested opening the faction up. Closed factions are doomed.
If we work together, we can make this work.
Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd. - Pingu! - 03-11-2012
Speaking of open nomads (you can call them nomad indies, I guess), there was request send to admins (from ex-keeper leader), about opening nomad ID to public. It was like... Half a year ago, and still, nothing happened. The plan was to give it a trial run, after trial run there would be voting, where admins, community and keeper(k'hara) players would decide if they want it or not (think of it as 3 votes). That was the plan, at least.
Since none of those happened, I guess we won't be seeing nomad indies soon.
Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd. - HuggieSunrise - 03-11-2012
Quote:I'm 37, and have been in and out of different rp clubs for 30 years, and: I'm sure this is actually a pretty common sentiment: I wont join a faction where there is a recruitment process, as I find it a direct intrusion upon my rp experience to follow an rp beuaracracy.
Im nearly 31. I've been a bum as well as a rich man. I eat raw meat, I crap vegetables. and sometimes my chest looks like a wet blanket. Sometimes I paint my face up to look like a clown and tell jokes in front of other adults, otherwise i wear wemons clothing because it makes me feel pretty.
My vast swelling and throbbing ARRRPEE Experiences err.... I mean Ego didnt stop me from becoming a keeper. Im sure in your life you've had to pay dues to get something in this case the dues are not that severe at all in fact the process was quite illuminating. Sometime humble action gain you more then making the assumptions "oh this clown's lore is no mach for my rp powers." I hate to put words in your mouth but i mean what else does that mean?
K'hara/keeprs the closed faction isnt a beurocratic entity Its run by a horrible Despot that convinced the previous despot hed keep oppressing the free spirit of rp in the disco community till under-verse come.
I don't know how else to impress upon those who don't "feel" the need to undergo indoctrination to play as a Khara faction member for the added benefits. I appreciate the wisdom in not wanting to feel anything emotionally complicated "playing a game".
This isn't just a game however its a community it has assets that it protects and guidelines the keep it from becoming a dirty juice stained carpet when the kids go nuts.
Its definitely a community of RP beginners and a safe haven't for "Do as you please" creative types. However there is a word here for your condition that you might have to review.
People think the admins are "stubborn" for not flexing certain rules or guidelines or that the community is to "rigid" because of its rules of etiquette. But this is wrong.. There is no possible flexibility on the community enforcers and assets side it would be like asking a chocolate bar to turn into a can of pepsi. It cant do it.
But you can follow or choose not to that your flexibility and it the only kind that exists in this relationship.
As for the "lore" and playing a "alien/nomad" is the same way. Your either doing it or your not. And thankfully a morph is what it is so most anyone can play one and let it not break the role.
As for the idea of independent nomads or.. differences and possible variations Id be happy to go over possibilities personally with you but the majority of the lore concerns people have are answer ad nauseousness in the keepers faction section.
As for the sentiments that closed factions are doomed. Every faction is closed, they have joining criteria and because they demand certain standards and practices of those who join their "flavor" is preserved. if that fails i guess that was their individual failing for one reason or another.
The thing that gets me twice? I know where your coming from. I was just like you. Hell i didnt even bother making a forum account until 2008 and ive watched this mod and all the servers that run it screw up in one way or another. Mostly on funding issues, and second on maturity issues.
I also hazard a guess that one of the people keeping this place running is Dick Clark AKA Satan and therefore will be with us until the second fall of heaven and or doomsday.
Settling on reality everyone's arguments for opening the faction up are moot because the bottom line is it isn't going to happen. because as a practicing follower of Cromdor the invulnerable he has assured me that as long as I keep feeding him souls the blood covenant will continue to endure.
finally
Quote: that if I did join K'hara I would end up leaving in frustration because my views would run very counter to what is intended with the K'hara
rmorph if you have the inclination to share this vison of yours im probably the only one now MORE THEN EVER to share it. who will actually read and work with you. Nows your chance my pm is open.
Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd. - Rmorph - 03-11-2012
' Wrote:Rmorph, I get your point but that what I quoted is the only thing you need to "prove" in order to join, not some kind of special powers or super RP. You and all who are interested to join the nomads need to fly like nomads. Once that is done you are in. Is that so hard?
You said a lot of good things so I will recommend you to join and fly with us.
I'll take you up on that next time I see your guys in space.
Quote:Here comes the other part: I dont know if you were familiar with the time when "keepers" were open faction. Yes that period was one of the biggest lolz in nomad history in disco. All our members didnt want to go to play because of the lolz.
Examples can be many but I will give you just few to understand why the general idea of making this faction open is totaly wrong:
1. Player "De***" - Nomad battleship in Iota - "Hai guys can I come with you for pew in NY?"
2. Player "X" - nomad morph - "Its hart for me to say english so can U write the recruting test for me plz? I know dont english.:("
3. Player "K'Hara|****" - fake one in NY - "engaging police and navy"
4. Player "***" - FL IFF, Nephthys ship, nomad blasters, Corsair ID. After few lines of RP he said: " Stop talk. Tell me where to get the nomad battleship and stuff"
5. Player "**" - a hunter in sigma-13 who arrived on scanner range - "alien! Engaging"
6. Player "Y" - indie morph, probably a new player but - "***Assisting Nomads***" "***Die***"
7. Player "YX" - in kyushu, watching a nomad gunboat. 1 min later in system chat - "Pirate in sector ..."
You can find all of this behavior in every other house, and every other type of ship, from Liberty to Gamma, and from starflea to Dreadnought.
Right now we can discuss about the qualitative experience of Nomad on the server as much as we like.
Fact is the quantitative experience is minimal.
The answer to this type of behavior is to be vigilant about it, rather than restricting the faction to the point of near unplayability.
We rely on other mechanisms to prevent it elsewhere - up to and including sanctions.
Corsair space is not the most rp-friendly place to be sometimes, but there are enough mature players there to keep some level of control. I argue the same behavior is valid for nomads.
Quote:and much much more.
My points are:
- Yes there are indi morphs who deserve to be in K'Hara but they dont want to join for unknown reasons.
IMHO: The process is convoluted and requires too much homework, and that homework feels like doing someone else's homework. The Keepers page, for example, comes across as a term paper in Nomad lore.
Quote:- Yes there are indie morphs who dont deserve to even have a morph.
Again, not unique to Nomads... One can argue that because Nomads are currently so protected, this problem has been offloaded to Corsair, Outcasts and the pirate factions. As I've stated, I believe Nomads make more sense for belligerent aggression than even these factions, and that it is even more oorp to see this type of behaviour from a Corsair or Liberty Police.
Quote:- Yes there are a lot of players who are interested in the nomads but:
-- They are doing nothing to help the faction
-- Complaining and whining why the nomad faction is closed cuz that dont allow their 2 pvp friends to make lolducks and gank anyone with minimal RP
When there is a ready faction with lore, members, and low activity then why dont you help it instead of requesting to make it open?
Several things here:
I'm a fan of K'hara lore: its a great piece of fiction, but I wouldn't join K'hara, and I think you guys are struggling for a reason that has nothing to do with the rp.
I would guess that the types of players that might consider a nomad rp role are by their very nature more rp-independent than the average player, yet joining the existing factions requires treading in other people shoes, and fulfilling other peoples expectations much more than even the other house + official factions.
If any of the other official factions had such a solid grip on another house, it too would see its playability fall.
For example, if the Corsair Elder council could define when corsair ids could be issued, or if the Liberty navy had a recruitment process for all levels of liberty lawful.
Epic alien interactions are missing from Discovery RP 24/7 because alien has become an elite restricted role, rather than the gold standard rp role it was intended to be. IMHO the server is a poorer place for it.
Also, it seems that any attempt to bring nomads to the wider audience is seen as either compromising the existing deeply-rooted convictions of those that do play nomads (who get to write the rules), or else is seen as whining (as you yourself describe it), rather than as objective problem solving.
Something tells me Dark, that if I did join K'hara I would end up leaving in frustration because my views would run very counter to what is intended with the K'hara, which is written as a very streamlined and solidly outlined set of role descriptions.
I intend no disrespect to you by saying that, as obviously you have the best interests of the faction and the race very much at heart.
I'm gonna simply go out on a limb and say that after years of trying, the experiment in restricting IDs to a single faction has proven to be a bad idea server wise.
How many are left?