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+--- Thread: Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF (/showthread.php?tid=99612)
RE: Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF - jonnaffen747 - 05-31-2013
Okay, as Example :
I am a pirate waiting at tradelane.
You come i disrupt it you in your Transport
I shoot you
Your dead
I pm you and rp to you
Thats same what happend to my base, this still fair?
RE: Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF - Havok - 05-31-2013
That is probably the Single worst Example in this situation. Ever.
RE: Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF - Karst - 05-31-2013
(05-31-2013, 10:18 PM)Bootsiuv Wrote: And your implying having a secondary password gives someone the authority to destroy something which doesn't belong to them?
The lack of rp on this server recently is crazu. Everyone runs around screaming "be rp, be rp" but what they should be saying is "be rp when it's a good outcome for your character/faction, otherwise just pretend you didn't hear it".
RP or no, these are real people who have invested time and energy into something. Just blowing it up without warning goes against the spirit of what we're trying to do here....
Have fun.
There was no warning before hand, from what I understand, because if the password had been changed and supplies hadn't been removed, it would be literally impossible to destroy a well-stocked base.
Summer had access and the right to destroy it because realistically, inrp, the BPA would have that.
Game-mechanics wise it would be entirely possible to create a base that once properly set up, could not be destroyed.
See the Goldern Coin.
RE: Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF - jonnaffen747 - 05-31-2013
Theoreticaly it is the same. For that I would get sanctioned now.
RE: Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF - jonnaffen747 - 05-31-2013
(05-31-2013, 10:25 PM)Karst Wrote:(05-31-2013, 10:18 PM)Bootsiuv Wrote: And your implying having a secondary password gives someone the authority to destroy something which doesn't belong to them?
The lack of rp on this server recently is crazu. Everyone runs around screaming "be rp, be rp" but what they should be saying is "be rp when it's a good outcome for your character/faction, otherwise just pretend you didn't hear it".
RP or no, these are real people who have invested time and energy into something. Just blowing it up without warning goes against the spirit of what we're trying to do here....
Have fun.
There was no warning before hand, from what I understand, because if the password had been changed and supplies hadn't been removed, it would be literally impossible to destroy a well-stocked base.
Summer had access and the right to destroy it because realistically, inrp, the BPA would have that.
Game-mechanics wise it would be entirely possible to create a base that once properly set up, could not be destroyed.
See the Goldern Coin.
He had not he had just the inRP Agreement to overwatch the base tag list, illegal commodities etc. normal stuff not to kill it.
RE: Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF - Thyrzul - 05-31-2013
I hear people complain about there was no warning prior to destruction of the base. Let me tell you there were neither any warnings from Luke Walker prior to both of the destructions of my ship. Isn't that unfair?
RE: Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF - jonnaffen747 - 05-31-2013
I can't know you passing the gate at those moments and Yes I have warned some before entering see : Rep.Ship''Mondlicht'' he survived as i warned him before entering as i tested platforms on one of my ships and seen how they are positionated hope he sees this and can give a Statement for this. You jumped out of the gate I cant know that before tbh
RE: Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF - Xelon - 05-31-2013
(05-31-2013, 09:44 PM)jonnaffen747 Wrote:(05-31-2013, 09:41 PM)Ndk071 Wrote:(05-31-2013, 09:39 PM)Xelon Wrote: Right the War Cabinet has made this decission in unision.
Marcus, ndk071, Summer and myself made the decision concerning the Base and it's fate.
This was not a decision made by Summer but just executed by him.
All the blame that you are loading onto him is unjustified and should be sent to the Factionleaders of involved factions.
To make that clear.
This. Taken into account what you planned to do with the faction of selling it and putting the condition that it be set hostile by the new owner to anyone that doesnt pay, and the previous incidents indicated by Thryzul , I agree with what he and Xelon have said.
First of all I wouldnt sell a Core 4 base for 1,5 Billion SC that would be dump. I would try to sell them for 12 Billion okay?
And as I had said, I wont sell the base without summers permission (this was before of ist destruction) and i was just joking with burak he can confirm this for you.
I'll gladly quote you on how you discussed this videly in the Bret lawful chat.
And since I never read anything on jokes in that chat (or I didn't see it, was spammy as hell at the time) it's pretty hard to deduce if somebody is joking or not.
Seeing that it was a lvl 4 base with 7 platforms the abuse once can have is pretty horrific, especially after it was built as a BHG base at the Gate without any change to that front whatsoever.
I'd be saying we're in the right to be worried, for the second instance about the reseting of the Base status and the IFF Summer will be posting about that.
The BAF and BPA make the requirement INRP that they always have access to the base and can thus deconstruct it at their leisure when they think it goes against the good of Bretonia.
Regards Xelon
RE: Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF - Bootsiuv - 05-31-2013
From what I've read....I've never spoken directly with him, but I'm sure I would like Summer as a person.
I don't think it's entirely fair to blame him. I think we need to re-think the system where it's ok to just blow up someones base without notifying them beforehand.
Player Bases should be handled just as player ships. RP must be conducted beforehand. People must be given a chance to respond.
We do it for traders that respawn and cost very little. The most you'll lose is 50 million.
Player bases represent hundreds of millions of credits, and dozens, if not hundreds of hours of gametime, between mutiple people. All of these people (note the word people, because believe it or not, we are not our characters) have an emotional investment in something that is bigger than them.
I've had two friends quit over our recent situation. I encouraged them to stay and work it out inrp, but no one wanted to rp about it. Discouraging to say the least.
It should at the very least be sanctionable under the right circumstances.
Meh.
RE: Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF - SummerMcLovin - 05-31-2013
I'll provide a bit of background first.
John/Luke here bought Blackpool Production Facility quite a while ago. He hasn't had any serious problems with it nor caused it for us: I only really remember a few - of possibly John's - ships breaking a few laws about Nomad remains and jumpships, which isn't a real problem.
A few months ago, the Bretonian War Cabinet (take a look here) were considering making a base - some of the options we came up with were at New London, Southampton or the Manchester gate. John then asked us about building effectively the last option but on the Manchester side, which seemed pretty nice. After getting the base half-built, John had to leave for a while (telling me it was for at least half a year) so I took the base off his hands and kept it going with the help of the Merchant Navy and Bowex. Unfortunately being busy with exams and other factions, I hadn't gotten around to actually completing the station.
John then came back earlier than expected, and asked to buy the base back to finish it. After discussing it with the War Cabinet, we took the funds to restart our plans to build our own base in New London which we hadn't gotten around to.
While I was away in Portugal, John finished the base (albeit with a couple more platforms than we expected) and, like "BP1" it wasn't a serious problem for a few days I was around. However, either John or someone else in Blackpool Industries had went against the conditions I had set - keeping a password for us, then BPA IFF - if you can dock with the gate without being shot, the base doesn't shoot you. Even our docking rights had been removed, and I'd not even have been able to have a look if I'd not had a ship on there already.
I was then asked about more bases being built (I think there were plans for about five) which I gave a "no" to John about. Two was probably too many, and having the whole Manchester system in the hands of someone outside of the Bretonian War Cabinet would be seen as a problem. He also asked about putting a toll on the gate, another thing I was against. Although disappointed, John seemed ok with that too. Bellck (Mark_Brown here) later asked me the same thing and was a bit more insistent in trying to convince me. As you can see in the Blackpool Industries thread, these plans were there both in and out of RP. While I was initially happy for John to have some presence, things were getting a bit much.
John was happy to let me undo the changes outside the conditions, but I later heard about (as Xelon mentioned) Bretonian ships being shot, and Thry'zul which I found out about inRP too. Today in the Bretonia Lawful Chat on Skype, there was a lot of talk about changes to the base, selling it off, plans to again change the targeting and later - through Reaper - to be a toll base on the gate. John says this was trolling, but Reaper and I clearly thought it was serious given that he was really looking to buy it.
I logged onto the base and sat there for about twenty minutes as we discussed what to do in the War Cabinet. I suggested we might have to remove the base, Marcus thought about just removing the platforms. We discussed all of the changes and future plans, but then there was something else.
(05-31-2013, 09:02 PM)jonnaffen747 Wrote: Well maybe he had bad bhg Reputation All can happend. But no as this one [C] passed I was testing rep etc , He just jumped out and base shooted on him it was an accident it wasnt my fault i dont wanted this but it happend one day ago from this post.You claim it was an accident, but there is of course this:
[07:05:49 PM] John | Luke Walker: Inreason you will have fun sittin at base and waitin for arriving enemys as you set base to all hostile and see how they get blown up at outcoming
Which rather tipped things over, with you destroying Thry'zul on purpose. You had told him "I thought Council should be enemies because they are unlawful". If you were trolling Reaper about the base being a toll and selling it to him "Summer approved" when it wasn't, then it's not a stretch to have done it in other ways. The Council misunderstanding, randomly wanting to turn Core, fairly sure that your character has changed from a Zoner to a Colonial - these things backed up what I thought of you initially.
You are a nice enough guy, a bit young and with English not being your first language there is a bit of a problem with over-arching ideas on RP. I've been bombarded with enough questions on your part, but have answered and helped you out when it's not harming others.
What if the base becomes a real problem, hostile to all "by accident" or because you, another existing owner or a new one decide to? Any new player coming out of New London, or all the small transports who trade the easy routes between Liberty and Bretonia, they get blown up.
Karst summed up the need of using the password 'aggressively', if you'd decided you didn't want to cooperate then I get locked out and the base is turned hostile and effectively invulnerable. Bases have been somewhat unclear in regards to the rules anyway - how many early ones have been lost to random caps? My post afterwards is normally a lot more than you'd get from many, and covers the inRP reasoning and methods fairly well.
When we were looking to take out the base, it was doing it this way, or in the very likely event you didn't want the work to be undone then we'd have a long drawn-out deal of FR5ing all your stuff and sieging the thing.
As for the WC decision being "inapplicable", when it was between John and I over Skype then I was ok to take the blame as it was mostly my idea and I was the one who cleared the base (and could have destroyed it afterwards myself but had some help for ease). However, with the public thread I've asked the relevant members of the War Cabinet to post - Xelon, Nik (and Marcus who is in bed just now).
And while we're in the habit of quoting from Skype:
[07:58:40 PM] Soul Reaper: lol look at summer
[07:58:44 PM] Soul Reaper: acting like he cares
[07:58:47 PM] Soul Reaper: poor noob
[07:59:17 PM] SummerMcLovin: *ahem* off Reaper. I do care
[07:59:38 PM] Soul Reaper: am I supposed to laugh ?
[07:59:43 PM] Soul Reaper: "I care so much about the guy THAT I BURNED HIS BASE DOWN LOL"
[08:00:25 PM] SummerMcLovin: I care enough to know he is clearly upset and to recognise it was a dick move
[08:00:39 PM] Soul Reaper: but you did it anyway, summer ?
[08:00:44 PM] SummerMcLovin: Doesn't matter if I have a reason, but it still is
I forwarded this, and plenty of explanations and apologies to you. I'm not a heartless guy, I understand you are upset and have every right to be. I sent back the money you paid for the base, and you'll find no RP consequences for your other base since it is not a problem (even though you immediately thought I'd blown that one up too when I have not so much as docked on it).
I'm not denying what I did, but there is some inRP reasoning for the local law enforcement having a failsafe option, especially since this is what I had said was the case:
[20/05/2013 02:19:09 PM] SummerMcLovin: I think we'd be looking for it to inRP be a joint venture - the BPA/government control the defence part while you guys have it as an HQ and control the everyday running of the base
You'd be able to get almost all of this from John and I's Skype conversations over the past few months - other than the (for this step, necessary) 'surprise demolition' I've been pretty clear and open about the base. You are upset, but I stand by the destruction of the base, and going about it the way I am forced to by the game mechanics.
And I'll tack on Marcus' Skype reasoning for potential problems, since he won't be able to post for a few hours at least:
[09:18:03 PM] Marcus: Just remember the main points:
-The change from the IFF wihtout consolting us, which can lead to hostile forces being able to dock on the base
-The base had been shooting at passing ships, there is proof and a formal RP complaint in the matter
-Given the above and that he registered his base with the Bretonian goverment then he's entered into a contract in which is is obligated to uphlod the conditions in which he entered.
-As it was registered with us, then we have the authority to terminate their contract and end the base if they violate their conditions. The contact clearly states that BPA, BAF and BIS have FULL access to the base. Which also includes shields and weapons and so we're capable of removing the base.
-Given that he did violate his contract, then given the location of his base and the platforms he was entrusted with, then it was deemed that it was a threat to the safety of traffic along the lanes, expecially given that there have already been attacks.
-If you want to move into more oorp reasons then you include how he kept talking about handing the base over to other factions hostile to Bretonia and the 'plans' on tolling the gate.