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+---- Thread: NPCs are damn too strong. (/showthread.php?tid=106598)
RE: NPCs are damn too strong. - Karst - 10-30-2013
Wow, this thread started today and it already has five pages (edit: six now that I'm done with this post, lel).
I'm not going to read through all of it, at least not right now, but anyway, I wholeheartedly agree with Pavel.
As it currently stands, any encounter is significantly influenced by NPCs.
It's probably worst when playing as a pirate as Pavel mentioned - negotiating with traders becomes very difficult with a constant stream lawful / corporate NPCs that are simply too strong to ignore.
And it's not just NPC ships - use a hostile jumpgate and you'll be deshielded before you can even move.
Not just that, but if you're sitting along a lane it'll be constantly disrupted by friendly NPCs, forcing you to pretty much kill everything that comes along the lane, which if you're in a snub is a full time job.
But the whole NPCs disrupting lanes is a matter that may warrant its own thread.
It's also bad in other situations: Want to raid Leeds? Gallic cap patrols present a greater danger than actual Gallic players.
You're fighting Outcasts in 23? More than half the damage they take is from the notorious IMG NPCs.
The reasoning behind it I guess is "you're in hostile territory and you should notice that".
The thing is though, this system strongly discourages people from entering areas that are hostile to them, which is kinda the basis of a great deal of player interaction.
Of course I can spend all day in Alpha on my Outcast and all day in core house space on my corporates and not have to constantly defend myself from annoying, role-playing preventing, immersion-breaking, totally unnecessary NPCs, but if everyone did that there would be no interesting interactions.
Please, on this matter, consider gameplay over in role play realism.
NPCs are making everyone's life harder, but especially pirates.
The result which we've been seeing is: piracy is almost entirely dead.
I've been flying a lot since 87 and almost exclusively corporate transports, and I've been pirated a whopping total of once.
I've said this before and I will again: limit NPCs and static defenses that are actually dangerous to the very cores of their respective factions ZOI, capital planets and such.
Anywhere else they are a nuisance that ruins player interactions, and player interactions are what this is supposed to be about.
RE: NPCs are damn too strong. - Lythrilux - 10-30-2013
Yes, remember everyone:
Fun > Realism.
RE: NPCs are damn too strong. - Tankman - 10-30-2013
(10-30-2013, 05:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Yes, remember everyone:You make it sound as if realism can't be fun, which it can be. However there is a balancing act between making a game too realistic and Candyland.
Fun > Realism.
I think the NPC's just need to be nerfed a bit, not much else.
RE: NPCs are damn too strong. - Lythrilux - 10-30-2013
That's not my intention at all. There are some great games which focus on realism, however there are times when adding too much realism into a game can be frustrating.
RE: NPCs are damn too strong. - Pepe - 10-30-2013
I voted for strong NPCs before and now I do too. Strong NPCs, but under some conditions:
- 3 grades of NPC activity: when there are 80 players loged and 50 or lower. For over 80 players - no NPCs. Missions should be limited by same trigger, to make server happier.
- another 3 grades: home systems, non-home systems and border worlds. Home systems should be well guarded, but not when 80 players are around. Border worlds should be swarmed by pirates, if only 50 players are logged or less.
- pirate NPC patrols should have 1-2 bombers escorted by fighters, depends of place and time (players logged). They would help players pirating on the right place at the right time.
All this to make:
- fly-by-night traders feel some adventure, even buy and use some guns.
- non-European players have some chance to shoot at something. If they have too much lag, they would find a way to solve that I hope.
- traders/miners to hire escorts. That would make more player interaction 24/7, money harder to get and harder to see newbie caps all around.
RE: NPCs are damn too strong. - JD.Bane - 10-30-2013
I play (quasi)lawful exclusively, so I can't speak to the pirating issues. As a trader (and sometime smuggler) I find they make trips more interesting. (Yes, pirates make things 'interesting' too, but haven't found a transport yet that can stand up to a bomber for very long, which makes the choice simple: pay or die. Not much chance for RP there.)
I will say that the NPCs are making solo mining almost impossible. Not all of us have the freedom to join a group - my playtime is often short and unpredictable in timing. I have no choice but to mine solo. But if I have to stop mining every 30 seconds to find off half a dozen NPCs (which now take *forever* to kill) then I might as well sell the damn ship.
RE: NPCs are damn too strong. - Yber - 10-30-2013
...remove npcs from the game fully except for the ones spawned in missions...?[/align]
RE: NPCs are damn too strong. - Lythrilux - 10-30-2013
(10-30-2013, 07:09 PM)Yber Wrote: ...remove npcs from the game fully except for the ones spawned in missions...?[/align]
This would also be a lovely solution.
RE: NPCs are damn too strong. - Xalrok - 10-30-2013
How about making the AI on ambient, unimportant NPCs flee from players? It can be done and wouldn't need lines of loadout code changed. Vanilla Rogue NPCs did it all the time.
RE: NPCs are damn too strong. - Vrouw - 10-31-2013
NPCs being removed would be silly. I -like- having NPCs around. What I don't like is the fact that if I'm in a fighter, I cannot stop for a second during roleplay against hostile NPCs without taking a ton of damage.