+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+--- Thread: Once upon a time, techchart. Pointless rant inside. (/showthread.php?tid=107589)
RE: Once upon a time, techchart. Pointless rant inside. - Curios - 11-22-2013
(11-22-2013, 09:03 AM)Ryummel Wrote:(11-22-2013, 06:58 AM)Curios Wrote: (though some were excited to have a possibility to finnaly get those Katanas BD wasn't giving to anyone)Should I have known that the technerf system was being implemented, I would have granted Katanas to everybody and the dog who asked me over Skype as ]bd[ leader, so then people had an actual reason to complain lol
Lol, pls
This whole Katana drama was quiet awesome to observe, rofl
RE: Once upon a time, techchart. Pointless rant inside. - Ryummel - 11-22-2013
Think the only real Katana drama was about the previous Iseijin flying them.
RE: Once upon a time, techchart. Pointless rant inside. - Huhuh - 11-22-2013
(11-22-2013, 09:27 AM)Ryummel Wrote: Think the only real Katana drama was about the previous Iseijin flying them.
With infernos because "We don't want to have to use bombers like everyone else."
RE: Once upon a time, techchart. Pointless rant inside. - Jack_Henderson - 11-22-2013
Reading all the "go back to the good old days" posts, makes me think:
Do you really want to go back to a system in which 90% of the players would never get anything and 10% get everything they want?
I do not...
... even though after 3 years I think I am reasonably well-connected and might be one of those who could likely get some toys for myself easily.
Fact is:
The Technerf system works.
It tells you "this fits" or "this doesn't fit".
It also adds some balancing to the game (and keeps exactly that 10 % of players from getting exactly these combinations that would make them badly overpowered)
The criteria and values for the technerf may not be perfect, and some cells might still need adjusting and re-adjusting, but that is a part of making an existing system work by adjusting it.
Going back should not be an alternative.
Some little injustice is bearable.
The old system was definitely not.
RE: Once upon a time, techchart. Pointless rant inside. - Kazinsal - 11-22-2013
(11-22-2013, 09:59 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Do you really want to go back to a system in which 90% of the players would never get anything and 10% get everything they want?
90% of those 90% just didn't try hard enough. The remainders tried for something that just wouldn't work (or involved phantoms or nomads).
Ask aerelm about spending a year to convince the Blood Dragons to release unto him a Katana. That's an example of the success from dedication in order to get what you truly want.
It pays to roleplay.
RE: Once upon a time, techchart. Pointless rant inside. - Lythrilux - 11-22-2013
Whilst I wasn't around for the previous system, IMO it sounds a lot nicer.
And is it me, or is the community starting to get an attitude of "I don't want to put the RP/effort/time into x, just give me y or allow me to kill z".
RE: Once upon a time, techchart. Pointless rant inside. - McNeo - 11-22-2013
I think the opening post has a serious case of rose tinted glasses going on, so that's my opinion in a nutshell.
First, a little preamble:
Opening that nutshell, during the time before the tech chart changed from a manual to an automated system, I was in charge or heavily influencial in managing two faction tech lines, that being Corsairs and Liberty Navy.
When the tech grant system was unilaterally changed by the admins from being a consensus-based deal which could be rescinded by a faction at any time, to a permanent deal which couldn't, that screwed me over big time, as my strategy up to that point was to use tech to ensure the loyalty of some particularly fickle factions and individuals. Corsairs and Reavers were once on good terms on this basis, because they presumably werent prepared to give up the tizzies. However, their options opened up after that admin change, and they promptly started shooting.
This is before the change to an automated system, for those that don't know what I'm talking about.
That really angered me. I hadn't made a mistake until the admins made it one.
Now:
Lets not pretend that the past was all skies full of diamonds and a girl called Lucy. It was possible, and easy in fact, to be an acceptably amiable individual that could be trusted by faction leaders to not be ridiculous with tech they got granted. If you went the direct RP route, you often had to go through a system, but for some requests this wasn't appropriate and you could contact the lead directly. This did create an environment where friends of that lead had an advantage, but then most of the time in order to be friends with them, all you had to do was not be abrasive, uncooperative, openly selfish and rude.
But then, there were examples every now and then of individuals that had good enough relations with powerful individuals that they got stuff on the basis of trust that future RP would be conducted, rather than the knowledge that past RP was conducted. I personally benefited from time to time because, apart from the fact that I could literally grant myself tech, it was known that I was actually somebody capable of RP. More extreme examples of this were Ench, who as a player could get just about anything from anyone, and the Phantoms, which had everything from everywhere.
Now, I know the vast majority of the ex-Phantom roster to be very amiable individuals, and I know Ench to be a caring individual. It is true to a certain extent that the system before created circlejerks of tech among friends, but these people were friends because they got along with each other and were generally nice people. Generally, you share your toys with nice people. It also wasn't particularly hard to break into this group of people when I was a new player in disco - in fact, Fellow Hoodlum, Nightfall, Caylith etc were all quite accepting since I wasn't a douchebag.
It strikes me that the people who complained about the previous tech system for the express reason of inequality and elitism are almost universally individuals with which I would not share equipment that exists only in a game, let alone something physical like a pint of beer. This is because these individuals are, largely, complete pricks. This is an RP server, so those individuals that come here that are proactive about integrating into the community, willing to learn roleplay (and thereby accept a social superior for the duration) and are amicable individuals get into that friend group. An awful lot of people have a problem with one of those three things, for reasons that I fail to see as anything other than irrational.
However:
The current system is an automated one and that's precisely why I like it. This is because I possess an intellectual belief in systems of governance, even if those systems are flawed. Now, there's lots I don't like about the system, but the thing I do like about it is that it is a system of rules that can't be broken. You, as a dev, put in the rules and the advocate is a computer that literally can't disobey itself. This means that it affords the world a consistency based on intuitive rules, rather than everyone racing towards the best pan-Sirius combo they can find.
I also like it because it cut sanction requests on the subject of tech to near zero. This is not because it wasted the admins' time, but because it wasted mine as I had to fill out some of these.
I don't give a damn about favouritism or elitism, partially because some would argue that I was part of it, but mostly because I'm also a staunch advocate of "if you cant beat them, join them". I hold no grudge to the super-rich in this world, because I hope to become one of them some day (yeah, as if that'll happen).
My opinion is that a main reason for complaints is that some people were getting toys which other people couldn't, and those other people were jealous. After the change, the people who were nice and rewarded for that were pissed off because their toys no longer worked, but the people who complained were also pissed off, because they didn't get the toys that other people had before.
But the proof that those who had toys were nice people is that they're still nice to each other now, even though they can't materialise their good feels for each other by granting each other tech. Some of these people left because reasons, but those that didn't are not suddenly start being rude to each other because their social relationship is no longer productive.
RE: Once upon a time, techchart. Pointless rant inside. - Chico - 11-22-2013
Mcneo....well said sir.
Quote:When the tech grant system was unilaterally changed by the admins from being a consensus-based deal which could be rescinded by a faction at any time, to a permanent deal which couldn't, that screwed me over big time, as my strategy up to that point was to use tech to ensure the loyalty of some particularly fickle factions and individuals.
That pretty much covered it. Tech goodies made RP an on-going thing.
It's strange how people forget that particular rule change. It was that which probably started a lot of this bs anyway.
Personally, I'd rather see ID only tech for all Disco inhabitants rather than what it is now but I doubt it would change anyway.
Ho hum...
*Disclaimer*: This is purely my opinion and does not represent the Families perspective (which is unknown to a low life like me).
RE: Once upon a time, techchart. Pointless rant inside. - Pancakes - 11-22-2013
A) Joe xd
B) McNeo won the thread (sorry Joe, you still summed up everything quite well though)
But the old system did have flaws but it was certainly better than the current technerf chat. While as Council leader I didn't give tech to everyone and their mother, sure, skypebuddism did help getting tech I have no illusion on that, but I never gave anyone just a /take on Council tech. Either they came with well established previous RP, or they had to work for what they wish to own. I even made a "points" bounty board that worked in a way that if you gained a certain amount of points you could convert them to either money for a lower count or tech for a far higher count (which would estimate at like 100m for a gun).
All in all - it was hell more fun, RP encouraging AND activity encouraging.
While it can't say it hadn't had flaws (because it had), the new chart has even more. Way more.
At least give factions the ability to give tech without nerf (at least to those who can use their tech anyway), which is basically them "supporting" (fixing/maintaining/w.e) the given technology.
Like, each official faction have one character that can do /givetech <techID> <Charactername>. If that character then has ID that has any basic allowance to use said faction's tech (lets say FL ID) they would receive no nerf at all. Because it still combines both ways AND makes sense. Hurray.
RE: Once upon a time, techchart. Pointless rant inside. - Huhuh - 11-22-2013
I wasn't particularly well connected back in the day, but I remember being able to get:
Outcast tech for Junkers
Unioner tech for Junkers
Hessian tech for Junkers
Zoner tech for Junkers
Liberty tech for a mercenary
Rogue tech for Junkers
and probably more.
All through reasonable amounts of roleplay. It wasn't entirely a case of skype connections (although they made it a fair bit easier).