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+--- Thread: Disco Tough Love: Remove Non-Official server compatibility from future versions (/showthread.php?tid=123120)
RE: Disco Tough Love: Remove Non-Official server compatibility from future versions - Omicron - 11-24-2014
If they dont want to play on Discovery official server, they wont do it after merge either. It's not bloody Stalin's Russia.
RE: Disco Tough Love: Remove Non-Official server compatibility from future versions - Vogel - 11-24-2014
It would have helped if Discovery had a design ethos from the beginning that did not revolve around hype for being the "successor to the Freelancer storyline." From a marketing standpoint, what exactly is Discovery providing?
Seriously. Sit back and think about the "product" you're trying to sell to people:
"A good/big community" - There are countless players who never touch the forum... and some don't speak English. I don't think they care outside of player count, and as noted, there are people who don't care about that either. Fundamentally they don't care because they don't see roleplay value in anything, but there is also the possibility that they are not impressed by what they've seen.
"A good combat system" - It's more bloated than vanilla. At least in vanilla people die and to what appears to be reasonable odds, i.e. getting ganked by a bunch of pirates, versus pirates being ganked by half the fleet. In Discovery it's always a whine-fest over "fairness" even in the middle of what is claimed to be roleplaying. That ship sailed with pirate cruisers and a dwindling server population. If you're going to harp on combat then what makes it unique? Are 10 minute fights with cruisers and 4-hour fights with fighters actually fun? Or is it just the blue message for some people?
"A functional economy" - Empirically false. Adding hundreds of new commodities does not make an economy, just more fluff to sift through before finding trade routes. Supply and demand is spurious because it adds to server load and, for it to be really effective, you'd have to fine-tune each and every location, based on lore, 24/7. Meanwhile corporations do not act like businesses and their money is sent to other player characters, governments neither tax nor fund much of anything, armed forces have no limit to their materiel outside of the number of rich players they have, and their numbers are dependent on players, not lore. And pirates? Pirates somehow have the capacity to receive money from legitimate, virtual bank accounts in the middle of deep space, and nothing tracks, hinders, or stops them. That whole "2 mil or die" approach is absolutely lazy and foolish: Piracy in sci-fi has always been about cargo, including in Freelancer. Apparently the challenge that provides is not seen as something good, and nothing was done to encourage cargo piracy at all. If pirates were forced to handle cargo then it would put some perspective into how difficult it is to fund those operations, but instead let's just /drawcash! In the end it's all nonsensical: there is no "economy" because there is no organization that would make an economy work. Player-owned bases are a start but you're starting from bare bones scratch, there, and you're still dependent on selling products at NPC bases. The objects they can produce are player-character-specific and are ridiculously costly. If bases served as crafting hubs for all sorts of commodities, in conjunction with an automated supply/demand system, there might be more merit to it. But that doesn't exist right now.
"A roleplaying environment" - Nevermind that people don't play into this very often: Why aren't the game mechanics geared to at least allow RP'ers to do so seamlessly? Am I the only one who sees the admin sanction board as a design failure? If you want to lower the overhead required, if you want to remove admin bias as an argument, if you want to encourage roleplay, and if you want to protect roleplaying from abuse, then it should be built into the game itself, from the bottom up. Constant policing by admins is a band-aid over a maimed stump: All it does is piss people off and drive both enforcers and enforced into drama and conflict. If policing can't be done by the LPI, then it can't be done by the admins. If piracy has to be regulated to the point of cut-and-paste statements of "2 mil or die," then that means something is Wrong. Benefits and punishments should be in-game and automatic, at every conceivable step.
The marketing pitch is not what draws customers, only attention. The actual product is what draws, and keeps customers. Now look at this product again.
Get it yet?
RE: Disco Tough Love: Remove Non-Official server compatibility from future versions - Thyrzul - 11-24-2014
And then have a look at the rest of the products and decide on your own which one you like the most.
RE: Disco Tough Love: Remove Non-Official server compatibility from future versions - Exploration - 11-24-2014
(11-24-2014, 08:01 PM)Toris James Gray Wrote: ...can't we restrict back the caps to SRP? Or at least CUT the number to the reasonable values? Please?
Don't go there again. Reducing caps will merely toss the entirety of the Indies who play on this game out the window. Thus reducing the player count to a pathetically low level. We're trying to want people to play here, players (A lot of them, might i add) Won't be too happy about caps being reduced to SRP only. Myself included. I like my caps. I don't see why being an ace at a Snub proves anything around here or holds any value except beating the opponent. I fail to understand why everyone rolls around saying it should be Snubs only. If you think that, go back to Vanilla if that's the case. I like my caps, they are a good RP platform. Nine times out of ten more interesting to look at than snubs and lets face it, most of the time (In my opinion anyway) The battles that 'Do' take place are a lot more fun than say an endless snub brawl in which it's dependant on who has the most hours at flying one. Caps are slower and anything can influence how a combat ends or takes place.
RE: Disco Tough Love: Remove Non-Official server compatibility from future versions - Garrett Jax - 11-24-2014
(11-24-2014, 10:04 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: And then have a look at the rest of the products and decide on your own which one you like the most.
Exactly.
Find a better product if your unhappy with this one. No one is forcing you to stay.
RE: Disco Tough Love: Remove Non-Official server compatibility from future versions - Vogel - 11-24-2014
(11-24-2014, 10:32 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: Find a better product if your unhappy with this one. No one is forcing you to stay.
![[Image: nicolascageconfusedemotions.gif]](http://myreactiongifs.com/gifs/nicolascageconfusedemotions.gif)
So let me get this straight: the server/community/mod is losing support. Everyone seems to agree that something must be done. A topic is made addressing ways in which it can be supported. And then when somebody questions the ethos behind the design process, the direction in which it goes, where emphasis is placed or removed, how the product can be improved rather than replaced, they're told to bugger off because nothing is changing and the present idea is perfectly sound.
And this is the response someone gets for pointing out the blisteringly obvious? "Nuhuh, we're flawless and got nothin' to prove maaan, so get out of here!... while we figure out a way to get more people to join." It's like standing there in a blazing inferno, screaming bloody murder about how it hurts, and then telling the fireman to go away because you don't need their help. That response is amazing. Really. This place never ceases to amaze me.
RE: Disco Tough Love: Remove Non-Official server compatibility from future versions - Sath - 11-24-2014
Be amazed. You got your things straight, except that this is not a product and no one is selling shit here. Think of it in a lighter perspective maybe?
RE: Disco Tough Love: Remove Non-Official server compatibility from future versions - Vogel - 11-24-2014
(11-24-2014, 10:51 PM)Moriarty. Wrote: Be amazed. You got your things straight, except that this is not a product and no one is selling ***** here. Think of it in a lighter perspective maybe?Of course it's a product. If it wasn't a product it would have no value. It would not be developed. It would not be advertised. It would not be downloaded. It would not be played. Something doesn't need to be sold for cash to be a product, but if it is created by people and used then it quite clearly is.
"A lighter perspective?" The heck is that, anyway? Unless by "light" you mean the glint of fire from the "watch it burn" mentality.
And why hasn't anybody actually addressed my points yet? Go ahead and tell me what you're selling. Tell me why people should play Discovery. Tell me what value it adds to anyone's lives, both among the current players and to prospective players who haven't touched it yet. Can you do that while avoiding or justifying the above? Does the development process take this into account? What direction is there, at the heart of it all, beyond adding new ships or commodities? What is the guiding principle? What's the objective for development? What community are you trying to build? What game experience are you seeking to provide?
Stop for all of three seconds and look at this without the instant assumption that I'm dissing the whole dev team and actually look at what Was and Is when it comes to this place and this mod. Then answer my questions.
"The dev team believes that the additions will appeal to what the majority of players desire."
Okay... and what does this mean? What is your impression of the majority vote? Does it line up with reality? Does the majority's opinion line up with reality? And if this is the sum of the process, is that your objective? To cater to the desires of the community? What kind of community? Only the entrenched and most vocal parts? What about the rest? What about people outside the community? If the desires of the existing community thwart any potential future community members, and will by definition make it unsustainable, is that justified by your guiding principle?
Has any of this been dealt with before? Where's the evidence that these things were fundamentally understood and enacted as part of an over-arching plan? Is there a plan at all? And if there is no plan, how can you expect success if not by complete fluke?
RE: Disco Tough Love: Remove Non-Official server compatibility from future versions - Garrett Jax - 11-24-2014
(11-24-2014, 10:42 PM)Vogel Wrote:(11-24-2014, 10:32 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: Find a better product if your unhappy with this one. No one is forcing you to stay.
So let me get this straight: the server/community/mod is losing support. Everyone seems to agree that something must be done. A topic is made addressing ways in which it can be supported. And then when somebody questions the ethos behind the design process, the direction in which it goes, where emphasis is placed or removed, how the product can be improved rather than replaced, they're told to bugger off because nothing is changing and the present idea is perfectly sound.
And this is the response someone gets for pointing out the blisteringly obvious? "Nuhuh, we're flawless and got nothin' to prove maaan, so get out of here!... while we figure out a way to get more people to join." It's like standing there in a blazing inferno, screaming bloody murder about how it hurts, and then telling the fireman to go away because you don't need their help. That response is amazing. Really. This place never ceases to amaze me.
Vogel, no offense bud, but I don't think we could do anything to make you happy. I hate to see unhappy people here and I definitely hate to see them rage on the forums at every perceived wrong they see in the game. You may have to face up to the sad reality that this game will never be a satisfying product for you personally. That being the case, wouldn't it be wiser for you to go find a better product somewhere else that would make you happy, assuming there is one? Banging your head against the wall in frustration seems to me to be a futile waste of one's time.
* Garrett Jax enjoys a hot cup of coffee.
RE: Disco Tough Love: Remove Non-Official server compatibility from future versions - Vrabcek - 11-24-2014
Please stay on topic and don't insult each other