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+--- Thread: Zoners - why they do exist? (/showthread.php?tid=133398)
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - The Savage - 11-29-2015
@nOmnomnOm Yes you are right. Sorry, I'm quite ill today and I'm not really contacting time to time. :| The word I was thinking about was outsider, not outcast.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Lythrilux - 11-29-2015
(11-29-2015, 06:43 PM)Captain_Nemo Wrote:(11-29-2015, 06:42 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: But he's not entirely wrong though. Zoner ID is barely used competently, and as I said in an earlier post they were intended to remain background NPCs. There's certainly some good RP out there (I hope) but most of my experiences with Zoners has been negative.
I demand proof of negative RP, if your referring to the drama around Freeport 11, most of that was your own fault
I actually didn't really mind that so much. Sure, Zoners were trying to talk tough to a faction much more powerful than they were, but the RP went in a logical direction and ended in a logical way, My gripes come from people doing dumb things with the capital ships mainly, or the stuff Pavel said.
(11-29-2015, 06:43 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: It's the player/community's fault for "not using it competently" though isnt it?
The ID is fine. Gives great RP opportunities. It's the players however that look for abuses to them that should be corrected and not removing the ID juse becasue indies dont know any better.
edit: might i remind you about the zoner guilds before that did a great job in RP? That was done great.
And yet everyone focuses on the indy with the cap or the indy with the whale trying to scream "dont pirate me i am a zoner!"
Personally I believe the NPC Faction and the ID needs to undergo a review so that we can place it in the mod properly. I don't doubt it can give great RP opportunities but those are missed in favour of the other, less meaningful, more negative and somehow more emphasised aspects of the RP. I mean fair enough we could punish the players, but the abuse is something that happens constantly over and over again. It's a player problem yes, but it doesn't help that we give them the tools/freedom for abuse.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - The Savage - 11-29-2015
Let's close this topic. It was wrong to bring "logic" and "Discovery" into one, again.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - pillow - 11-29-2015
(11-29-2015, 06:52 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: Let's close this topic. It was wrong to bring "logic" and "Discovery" into one, again.
Actually I don't think you should ask for the thread to be closed so soon.
Pressing on the subject is a good idea. Zoners should be exterminated for the reasons you've talked about above: Shelter criminals - get stomped on by the nearby authorities. Makes zero sense for them to exist.
However, at the same time, the Zoner 'faction' is only used as a white base in the middle of a red, hostile space.
Say you're some guy with some ID hostile to everything in the Omicrons: Core, Order, Corsairs, Outcasts - whatever.
Unless your RP style says so, it's very hard to make the Zoners angry with you. And here you go - you have a few bases to dock while in the Omicrons.
From an RP standpoint, the Zoners shouldn't be allowed to exist anywhere.
From a gameplay standpoint, Zoners should stay where they are. Uh, only their bases.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Karst - 11-29-2015
Another thread with a lot of people claiming houses have control over the border worlds.
They don't.
Houses don't even have control over their own capital systems (see: Badlands etc.). They most certainly cannot effectively enforce laws outside of their most populated areas. I'm glad the rules nowadays reflect this and put an end to the power-grabbing, fun-ruining idiocy of the houses.
Zoners exists because they offer goods and services that are useful to people in the areas outside of house space, people from both sides of the spectrum - sure Freeports have become kind of notorious for harboring criminals, but they're often the only lawful ports in the area as well. It's a balance that clearly more or less works for everyone involved.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Enkidu - 11-29-2015
(11-29-2015, 07:31 PM)Freedom Phantom Wrote: From a gameplay standpoint, Zoners should stay where they are. Uh, only their bases.
Then make them freelancer bases.
Edit: I've played tonnes of Zoners, trust me; zoners are just edge world civilians. That's nothing FL ID can't simulate.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - sindroms - 11-29-2015
(11-29-2015, 05:04 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: Note, it's not a rant, but a serious political question.
While I do believe they would live relatively peaceful in Omicrons (but then, we have people here who wouldn't be happy with a station which supplies everyone, even the enemies - so situation repeats sooner or later), I'm not pretty sure why Zoners do exist and are allowed between the House Spaces. Just why?
House Authorities are aware that Zoners may shelter criminals. If I was in possession of such a information, I'd completely ban Zoner activity if necessairy and erase every station from inter-house space. In case of Bering, Liberty Navy claims Freeport 2 and renames it, as system is already theirs. In case of Kepler - simply nuke the station, since Kusari wouldn't be happy about Liberty base in a buffor system. BAF ought to do the same with Freeport 1 in Omega-3, since it's obvious that Zoners DO shelted and resupply Corsairs - the vile enemy of Bretonian crown.
My sincere question is: what stops House Authorities to ban Zoner stations from space between houses?
So I kept my eye on this thread for a bit and, apart from being a massive bait, I will admit that it brings up a few interesting facts about this faction.
However, the more I read the replies, the more I want to point a few things out, given the fact that I myself had spent a few good months working on a zoner character a few years back. First of all, the overall idea of Zoners is that they are an attempt to shy away from the rules and regulations of houses and their politics, a group of like minded individuals trying to remain neutral in an otherwise very hostile environment, especially the further ''east'' on our universe map you go.
The problem with the Zoner lore and RP is that people tend to miss that one very important word in the summary above. "Attempt". I am pretty sure they did not take long to realize that being neutral and independent from anything would not work. Otherwise they would physically not have gotten any of the ships they utlize now.
The Zoners, in their essence, are an overall failed attempt to try to reach those establish goals and the groups and characters should begrudgingly know that deep down inside. That alone would make the whole group more interesting as a RP platform in by itself. Still, this is not the point of the topic, so let me address the main question at hand here:
Quote:I'm not pretty sure why Zoners do exist and are allowed between the House Spaces. Just why?
As we look at Discovery, we tend to look through game mechanics. This is something a lot of our players tend to forget, be it during RP on the server or as they write stories on the forum. The distances between houses are huge. For you it might be ''two jumps'', but ingame they are meant to be pictured much longer and much more dangerous than you can imagine, given the fact that the only actual portrayed threat are some level 5 npcs disrupting the lanes.
This is not like walking across the street to the store.
The space between houses is huge, which is why the borders are so very hard to establish or to regulate. Think about it. We portray the borders between Kusari and Liberty as who the lanes belong to between the jump gates. But think about it - those lanes are literally a ''line'' going from A to B. Nobody actually has control over anything outside of that location, if there was anything worth controlling, anyway.
Heck, just to prove a point, our characters live in an universe, where a company that ships food and oxygen need to hire, supply and utilize personnel with military background just to run them alongside convoys. Distance is something Freelancer never could explain well and the dangers that you encounter moving between each and every station and solar object.
The reason why nobody cares about those freeports is BECAUSE they are so far away. If either house would want to commit resources patrolling empty space, the taxpayers would not be amused. That is why freeports are, for the lack of a better word, a necessary evil in their eyes. It is because they provide shelter for traffic between the houses that the local forces do not need to stress themselves to acquire more efforts for those border systems.
That and also even if they did, having a borderworld filled with sizable amounts of military forces from two houses would NOT be fun for either side. Especially when one is known to be under the Gallic boot.
And last but not least, specifically for the criminal sheltering argument, is that unlike the hidden pirate bases and whatnot, the authorities at least know where freeports are. If they want to catch someone, there is no better honeypot.
Also, you need to remember that we are talking about individual criminals basing off one station, so smiting them is not a problem. Just because we are used to perceiving it as 20 player cap raids basing off a freeport, does not mean it happens IRP.
Those would be my two cents. Take them for what they are worth.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - pillow - 11-29-2015
(11-29-2015, 09:27 PM)Dunc- Wrote:(11-29-2015, 07:31 PM)Freedom Phantom Wrote: From a gameplay standpoint, Zoners should stay where they are. Uh, only their bases.
Then make them freelancer bases.
Edit: I've played tonnes of Zoners, trust me; zoners are just edge world civilians. That's nothing FL ID can't simulate.
I would if I could, yo'.
I so would if I could.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Thyrzul - 11-29-2015
(11-29-2015, 09:27 PM)Dunc- Wrote:(11-29-2015, 07:31 PM)Freedom Phantom Wrote: From a gameplay standpoint, Zoners should stay where they are. Uh, only their bases.
Then make them freelancer bases.
Edit: I've played tonnes of Zoners, trust me; zoners are just edge world civilians. That's nothing FL ID can't simulate.
Hell yes. I've been saying they are edge world freelancers for a good while now. Because they are.
Also, why was there a derail about server rules in this thread? Barely anything relevant to the purpose of Zoners.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - The Savage - 11-29-2015
(11-29-2015, 09:24 PM)Karst Wrote: Another thread with a lot of people claiming houses have control over the border worlds.
They don't.
I will just make one question then:
Why Trade Lanes are dubbed X Military/Navy then, shouldn't they belong to Zoners then, beyond Freeport 2 in Bering?