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+--- Thread: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) (/showthread.php?tid=136782)
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - HassLHoFF™ - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 02:57 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:(03-08-2016, 02:35 AM)Genexus Wrote: Ehhh? No. Better thing would be to improve the recruitment process. Which is Huggie already on to I think. Probably, remove the ID entirely, ease the recruitment and directly support players into nomad gameplay.
But why should people have to join K'Hara? Imagine if people had to join [LN] to fly Liberty Navy. Or had to join [TAZ] to fly Zoners.
There is a critical problem here and the need to sign up to the faction to fix it - which evidently isn't working because I am not seeing Nomad an influx of numbers nor seeing a fix to this big pvp imbalance issue - is unecessary. And as I said the reason why there's no alternative to K'Hara is because the indie ID itself is incredibly and needlessly restrictive.
And the notion of removing the ID is a joke. Should we start taking away the indie IDs of all NPC factions just because of some unjust and preconceived idea that actually taking way restrictions and buffing some for better gameplay is terrible? Or that just because indie RP will never be 100% equal to official faction RP, we shouldn't bother allowing indies at all?
Basic Nomad RP, in accordance to the NPC faction and vanilla, is not difficult. For the more advanced stuff, K'Hara show them the ropes. But for the sake of logging in, raiding me and I shoot them back, and in the process everyone has a fun time? Basic requirements.
(03-08-2016, 02:35 AM)Genexus Wrote: Unregulated Terrorist IDs with caps should be a no go. I just remind you on the time AI cruisers were allowed to attack anything within their ZOI.
I couldn't remember a moment when I shed a tear over that. In fact, I didn't even know it had been changed. When was this? Anyway, apples and oranges. We're talking about Nomads here. There's not really a problem with an AI shortage as the AI ID is open enough and unrestricted enough for indies to play it and not be hopelessly outmatched by everything else in the Omicrons. We can't say the same for the Nomad ID. And it's hardly unregulated; if people screw up they'll be punished by the rules.
Where is all this stigma coming from? On one hand it seems like K'Hara doesn't want anyone to get access to their toys because it seemingly runs the risk of making them defunct (when it really doesn't), on the other people have these unjust fears that allowing Nomad indies to stand toe-to-toe with their enemies in the Omicrons will somehow make them worse than every other indiebase combined and be the biggest crisis since the Wall Street Crash. If letting indies use caps is really this oh-so-bad then perhaps we should remove caps from every ID?
Christ the amount of snooby elitism in this thread absolutely stinks and it's what's killing this mod. I'm almost starting to feel sick when making some of these replies.
Well, in fact, this is something I have once suggested for a while, to gain focus of the representing player groups of each faction "directing" new players to a group of players instead of flying alone right from the start by creating an entry system with a bunch of jumpholes with an ad-banner (that contains a small description, contact and tasks) of each faction above each jumphole.
It could even be a decision tree separated into "Do you prefer to play lawful, semi-lawful, unlawful?" -> "Do you prefer shooting, trading, balanced?" -> And then you have the factions to choose.
Anyway this is an old topic, but it stays "No" to caps for nomad indies.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Kaghuros - 03-08-2016
I think the Indie Nomad ZoI should be expanded into more edge worlds so that they can get real roleplay with Sirius factions like the K'hara does, but also that we should change the engagement lines on their ID so that they can't attack anything outside the Omicrons unless it's in self-defense.
Honestly it's always bothered me that the K'hara have an effective monopoly on interaction with non-Omicron factions on top of their already staggering list of privileges over the basic ID (and other official factions in general). The fact that anyone hoping to make a separate Nomad faction is confined to the Omicrons (and, let's face it, a massive gank fest where they will always be outnumbered) until they punish their way into an official ID is incredibly damaging to indie motivation, more so than a lack of capital vessels is.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Jeremy Hunter - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 04:32 AM)Kaghuros Wrote: I think the Indie Nomad ZoI should be expanded into more edge worlds so that they can get real roleplay with Sirius factions like the K'hara does, but also that we should change the engagement lines on their ID so that they can't attack anything outside the Omicrons unless it's in self-defense.
Honestly it's always bothered me that the K'hara have an effective monopoly on interaction with non-Omicron factions on top of their already staggering list of privileges over the basic ID (and other official factions in general). The fact that anyone hoping to make a separate Nomad faction is confined to the Omicrons (and, let's face it, a massive gank fest where they will always be outnumbered) until they punish their way into an official ID is incredibly damaging to indie motivation, more so than a lack of capital vessels is.
I'd say can't attack nonmilitary ID'd players unless in self defense or the perpetrator is carrying Nomad artifacts. That way a lot of the rolepaly would be intact but it couldn't be used to just start shooting anyone in sight.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Kaghuros - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 04:39 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote:(03-08-2016, 04:32 AM)Kaghuros Wrote: I think the Indie Nomad ZoI should be expanded into more edge worlds so that they can get real roleplay with Sirius factions like the K'hara does, but also that we should change the engagement lines on their ID so that they can't attack anything outside the Omicrons unless it's in self-defense.
Honestly it's always bothered me that the K'hara have an effective monopoly on interaction with non-Omicron factions on top of their already staggering list of privileges over the basic ID (and other official factions in general). The fact that anyone hoping to make a separate Nomad faction is confined to the Omicrons (and, let's face it, a massive gank fest where they will always be outnumbered) until they punish their way into an official ID is incredibly damaging to indie motivation, more so than a lack of capital vessels is.
I'd say can't attack nonmilitary ID'd players unless in self defense or the perpetrator is carrying Nomad artifacts. That way a lot of the rolepaly would be intact but it couldn't be used to just start shooting anyone in sight.
So how about this for the phrasing?
Pilot carrying this unlawful ID is a Nomad, who:
Can freely engage any ship in the Omicrons except for Nomad or Wilde ships.
Can treat transports as combat targets in the Omicrons.
Can freely engage House Military, Order, and Core ships in the systems listed in the ZoI.
Can attack any ship in self-defense, to protect another Nomad or Wilde ship, or to defend Nomad and Wilde bases.
Cannot ally with anyone except Nomads and Wilde.
Cannot demand cargo or credits.
Cannot land anywhere except Nomad or Wilde bases.
Must follow the roleplay engagement rules and be fully uncloaked prior to combat.
ZoI: Omicrons, Omegas, Sigmas, and House Systems excluding Gallia.
Allowed ships: Nomad Light Fighter, Nomad Fighter, Nomad Assassin, Nomad Bomber, Nomad Gunboat, Nomad Cruiser.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Epo - 03-08-2016
Well, after reading the whole thread I must admit that you're really against any indies. Saying that they will be randomkillers from start is a bad statement. Like we already have indies flying around and IS EVERY SINGLE ONE of them an flying butthurt who kill evrything nearby? No.
You're behaving like the indies have already murdered the server, while they're the main force that keeps it alive, apart from number of officials. Really guys, just more faith in indies. They didn't blow the server yet and doubt they ever will.
Also if bringing an 'duk to Delta to camp freeport is so problematic, just restrict it to Zeta max. Problem solved.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Jeremy Hunter - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 07:35 AM)Epo Wrote: Well, after reading the whole thread I must admit that you're really against any indies. Saying that they will be randomkillers from start is a bad statement. Like we already have indies flying around and IS EVERY SINGLE ONE of them an flying butthurt who kill evrything nearby? No.
You're behaving like the indies have already murdered the server, while they're the main force that keeps it alive, apart from number of officials. Really guys, just more faith in indies. They didn't blow the server yet and doubt they ever will.
Also if bringing an 'duk to Delta to camp freeport is so problematic, just restrict it to Zeta max. Problem solved.
It's due to the extension of the ID itself, not the fact they are indies. LN indies, Order indies, all have specific restrictions.
Nomads literally are able to shoot anyone and anything they damn well please.
That, is what is worrysome about Indies with marduks. Irras, I believe can be argued. But battleships are what the K'Hara are not liking...since, you know, it's essentially a terrorist ID with Sirius wide ZoI.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Epo - 03-08-2016
Well if you ask me:
1) If you find it problematic to see various weird named marduks, just drop somewhere on forums list of allowed names and everyone who wants one would need to reply to this post with a name he/she has chosen. Another Marduks met in game could be removed withno warning by Big Guys to make a few mill lesson for being an troll.
2)If you find it problematic that duks would instakill something near base, just add the following line to the ID:
Can't attack anything less than 10k from the nearest station/planet unless in self-defence or during combat.
Basically it would force duks to look for their victims a bit further that just at the freeport, while still being able to participate in PvP which has been started further away.
Or to sum up both things: Player who wants to play an mardie would need to follow the 1st step and he will get an special ID (eg. some kind of elite indie ID) with all the restrictions and info left inside. This ID would be the only one (apart from K'Hara) which would provide 100% powercore on duk and only given by admins in PM after leaving an player request lets say. Something like this system has worked fine on another server where caps were restricted. And there's how it would look in reality:
1. There's an thread on forums with all allowed 'duk names. (I know it would require many)
2. Player who wants to get an 'duk would leave an simple post in this thread:
"Request sent"
3. He would make an Player Request with:
- /restart fcnomad char with the amount of money to buy an unarmed Marduk ==> Your Duk with cash and movecharcode set for moving by admins ==> note that player requests are visible only by admins if I remember well
- name he/she has chosen <== Basically the restart char would have been named NOT LIKE THE MARDUK <== Admins would rename it if the name you've chosen isn't already taken by someone
- Admins would send you an renamed and unequiped 'duk in Private Message (movecharcode)
Big Guys would have been provided with two (2) weeks to accept your request and send PM with further data.
It would give people some anonymity and big guys would know who's who if came to breaking rules.
This way random people wouldn't get the Duks and the existing ones would have been taken under controll of its numbers, names, owners and etc.
ID Wrote:Pilot carrying this unlawful ID is a Nomad, who :
- Can engage any ship in the Omicrons except for Nomad and Wild ships.
- Cannot treat transports as combat targets unless in self defence
- Cannot leave the Omicrons
- Cannot ally with anyone except Nomads and Wild.
- Cannot demand credits or cargo.
- Can dock only on Nomad bases in Omicron-99 or Omicron Iota
- Cannot bring Cruisers or Battleships into any system containing a Jump Gate with the exception of the Omicrons.
- Cannot attack anything up to 10k distance from the closest docking facility (station/planet) unless being already in combat
- Must meet the naming conventions, which can be found in K'Hara 's subforum on discoverygc.com
- Cannot rename the vessel
Allowed ships: Nomad Cruiser, Nomad Battleship
ZOI: Omicrons
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Tommeh - 03-08-2016
Kudos Epo for making effort with this stuff.
It would be known who flies those marduks, as it would require forum registration, they wouldn't be just spamed with no end.
And if one abuses it 2,3 times, simply take it away and voila.
If it gets a simple No once again, without even making effort to give it a trial run, then I don't know what to say really.
Nothing so far worked to bring Nomad activity in Omicrons, all the Trial ID's, making Khara easier to join or something third didn't worked.
I just don't get it how people can be so paranoid and afraid to try new things, something that hasn't been tried before simply cause it could backfire, like certain things did on this server for which you thought it couldn't happen.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - thisDerius - 03-08-2016
If you hand out norma nomad ID to have all up to BS classes, omicrons just might become another lolberty. I dont know if anyone has written this already but whatever.
RE: Allow Nomad Capitals for the indie Nomad ID (and some other changes) - Lythrilux - 03-08-2016
(03-08-2016, 04:32 AM)Kaghuros Wrote: I think the Indie Nomad ZoI should be expanded into more edge worlds so that they can get real roleplay with Sirius factions like the K'hara does, but also that we should change the engagement lines on their ID so that they can't attack anything outside the Omicrons unless it's in self-defense.
It's already got access to all the Edge Worlds (current Nomad ID can go to the Omegas and Omicrons as per admin annoucement), bar Tau-37 and Gallic Edge Worlds.
(03-08-2016, 05:18 AM)Kaghuros Wrote: So how about this for the phrasing?
Pilot carrying this unlawful ID is a Nomad, who:
Can freely engage any ship in the Omicrons except for Nomad or Wilde ships.
Can treat transports as combat targets in the Omicrons.
Can freely engage House Military, Order, and Core ships in the systems listed in the ZoI.
Can attack any ship in self-defense, to protect another Nomad or Wilde ship, or to defend Nomad and Wilde bases.
Cannot ally with anyone except Nomads and Wilde.
Cannot demand cargo or credits.
Cannot land anywhere except Nomad or Wilde bases.
Must follow the roleplay engagement rules and be fully uncloaked prior to combat.
ZoI: Omicrons, Omegas, Sigmas, and House Systems excluding Gallia.
Allowed ships: Nomad Light Fighter, Nomad Fighter, Nomad Assassin, Nomad Bomber, Nomad Gunboat, Nomad Cruiser.
Honestly that's still too restrictive. Well, bar the House space bit. But the point of this thread is to cultivate Nomad activity in their native region, not to lease it elsewhere. Honestly, although outnumbered, K'Hara already serves the purpose of making Nomad incursions into space outside the Edge Worlds. At the least, having the ID so that indies can take their stuff on raids with K'Hara into the houses might be a good idea. I'll update the OP with another concept ID to reflect that. It doesn't make sense to only restrict them to house military, Order and Core. There's SO MANY other IDs in the Edge Worlds and it'd be sad to limit the activity creating potential to two native IDs and a whole bunch of other IDs that literally never go into the Edge Worlds. But uh, that line you put also conflicts with the first line, which is confusing. We don't need to slap a line telling them to follow the roleplay engagement rules because, as I have said, the rules were updated recently because K'Hara of all people went around abusing them and now Nomads can no longer silently insta-engage.
That ID seems really confusing and convoluted.
(03-08-2016, 07:43 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: It's due to the extension of the ID itself, not the fact they are indies. LN indies, Order indies, all have specific restrictions.
Nomads literally are able to shoot anyone and anything they damn well please.
In terms of lines PvP-wise other IDs in the Edge Worlds are no different, bar the Zoner ID. They pretty much have the exact same engagement lines except they have to make a demand against transports before shooting them. The Edge Worlds is and has always been a hive of people who shoot anyone but themselves. The Nomad indie ID naturally and any changes it may get don't change that. The specific restriction for the Nomad ID IS that it can't leave the Edge Worlds.
(03-08-2016, 07:43 AM)Jeremy Hunter Wrote: That, is what is worrysome about Indies with marduks. Irras, I believe can be argued. But battleships are what the K'Hara are not liking...since, you know, it's essentially a terrorist ID with Sirius wide ZoI.
The indie Nomad ID is not a Sirius wide terrorist ID. It only has ZoI in the Omicrons and Omegas (Edge Worlds) currently. Giving indies Duks will not enable them to go on a Sirius wide killin spree - if they do that they'll be sanctioned on ID breaking alone - it just will finally give them a fighting chance in the Edge Worlds.
(03-08-2016, 12:26 PM)Epo Wrote:ID Wrote:Pilot carrying this unlawful ID is a Nomad, who :
- Can engage any ship in the Omicrons except for Nomad and Wild ships.
- Cannot treat transports as combat targets unless in self defence
- Cannot leave the Omicrons
- Cannot ally with anyone except Nomads and Wild.
- Cannot demand credits or cargo.
- Can dock only on Nomad bases in Omicron-99 or Omicron Iota
- Cannot bring Cruisers or Battleships into any system containing a Jump Gate with the exception of the Omicrons.
- Cannot attack anything up to 10k distance from the closest docking facility (station/planet) unless being already in combat
- Must meet the naming conventions, which can be found in K'Hara 's subforum on discoverygc.com
- Cannot rename the vessel
Allowed ships: Nomad Cruiser, Nomad Battleship
ZOI: Omicrons
I think that ID concept is a bit restrictive. As I said indies will just pick up names inhertently after playing for a while. It's why you see LNS- ships named after American states or cities, or why you see Core and Order caps have the correct WV- and OCV- designation respectively. We really don't need to force invisible safe zones around stations. It can be the job of players to defend them, which is what will create activtiy. I already see Order and other ships hugging stations. A line like that will just cause the conflict to stagnate.
(03-08-2016, 06:04 PM)Darius The Ganker Wrote: If you hand out norma nomad ID to have all up to BS classes, omicrons just might become another ban me. I dont know if anyone has written this already but whatever.
Another 'ban me'? What?