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+--- Thread: Gentle Reminder (/showthread.php?tid=142213)
RE: Gentle Reminder - nOmnomnOm - 08-17-2016
(08-17-2016, 09:32 PM)Ramke Wrote: I don't see why this "reminder" is needed at all.
I'm talking from my experience of being a member of, and eventually leading a faction that was often "bullied" by people logging whenever you did, to get your blue message as a bounty. It had been going on for ages, and I was close to quitting Discovery altogether (and I nearly did twice).
I've asked the admins for support, but they weren't breaking any rules and nothing could be done rule-wise.
I've asked the community for support, but the replies were mostly "get good".
What made that issue die off ultimately?
We did get better and improve PvP-wise. We recruited players who were willing to help fend the "bullying" players away. We weren't easy blues anymore. We listened to feedback and improved our faction, eliminating the issues most found unlikeable. The whole thing came to a stop very rapidly.
I already know from what people this is coming from based on who's defending the "warning". I was already insulted many, many, many times for politely speaking my point of view and suggesting change, That's how the people behind it act, and there's really little reason to actually say anything that contradicts their point of view.
The community should evolve around them, not they around the community.
+1 pretty much
RE: Gentle Reminder - Divine - 08-18-2016
The people attacking those in favour of this warning and the people that feel this warning is not warranted nor should it ever been issued miss the point that it's already gone way beyond the point of "it's just a game" or "get good" and has nothing to do with any sort of "PvP-skill" anymore. It's about blatant ruining the game for others by the sheer ability of some to do so via the means of PvP.
A few selected log by watching the player-list or having others inform them, then mostly bring their friends on any ship possible to assist them (when things come down hard) just to drop a few lines of indifferent and vague RP to cover the minimum based RP before engagement to then proceed for their guaranteed easy blue. Those few selected get their challenge in PvP against others of their kind and their friends, but view literally everyone else and some individuals more as nothing more than just easy blues for their own satisfaction without any regard to even consider providing an enjoyable encounter for all sides involved.
The argument brought by Ramke is right, but doesn't acknowledge for the point that this community lost many members and with the few left and the more frequently happening troll-engagements there's not really a chance to catch up on the "PvP"ers if you don't join their side, which is, on the long run, degrading the overall quality of the mod even more.
Yes, a lot of those people labeled can very well provide awesome RP on forums, but that's about it. Their attitude towards everyone not with their clique is awful at best and right out negating others any fun within the game at worst.
(08-17-2016, 09:32 PM)Ramke Wrote: ... That's how the people behind it act, and there's really little reason to actually say anything that contradicts their point of view.Same can be said for those just about their own enjoyment for an easy blue. Those people actually could consider going to face people skillful enough to bring up a decent fight and when those aren't around, could use the time for something different in their lives, but instead decide to pick on people they know they'll roll over easily just to bolster nothing less than their own desire for having achieved a blue message with no value to it. The enjoyment to them actually comes with the disappointment of those they wrecked. Such an attitude isn't alien to literally all games allowing PvP in any form. It's still neither something to be proud of, nor something one should really strive for.
The community should evolve around them, not they around the community.
And yes, the community should not evolve around those selected few that pressure their narrowed view of ingame interactions upon the majority. And yes, I just rolled your statement up the other way as it was intented.
Then again, those selected view are the ones voicing their "concerns" the loudest when it comes to anyone of their clique in any way being attacked or harmed.
//Edit: The more important issue though is, that those few spread their attitude, until one day, on the longer run, nothing else besides their cirlce-jerk without any substance to it is left. And that's the way this is going if it's not put to an end.
RE: Gentle Reminder - Haste - 08-18-2016
Nowadays, I log (almost) exclusively because I see something on the player list I want to either shoot, type words at or a combination of those two. Pretty unavoidable if you want to experience anything halfway interesting without aimlessly flying around for five hours.
Does that make me a naughty shadowlogging meanie and should I be worried that I might be part of the next "banned six" as a consequence?
Would be pretty nice to know.
RE: Gentle Reminder - Inferno - 08-18-2016
(08-18-2016, 10:16 PM)Haste Wrote: Nowadays, I log (almost) exclusively because I see something on the player list I want to either shoot, type words at or a combination of those two.I kinda did that for the K'Hara in Cortez yesterday...but I was already logged in...I just flew across Sirius to RP/run from it.
RE: Gentle Reminder - Arioch - 08-18-2016
There is a difference between seeing people that you'd want to RP with/Interact with, and logging just to shoot someone to grief them. If I look at the player list, and see a bunch of people in say Delta, I'll probably log to RP and/or PVP. Nothing wrong with that. The issue comes from people who have ships docked around Sirius, will watch for specific players to log in just to engage them with a "Found you!" then "Die scum!" minimal RP, and if they escape will log another ship in the path of the escaping ship to get their blue.
Make sense? i'm sure you can rip apart what I said and go "yeah but what if?" or "But in this instance..." Just stop please. If you repeatedly log/fly to the system they are in to shoot a singular person/group with zero regard to at least some decent RP, just because you know you can get a blue/blues, then that's an issue.
RE: Gentle Reminder - Vendetta - 08-18-2016
That isn't shadowlogging.
Again, people seem to be misinterpreting what it is.
(08-17-2016, 04:53 PM)Vendetta Wrote: It's a form of griefing. Not just a random encounter that goes bad. It's people actively hunting down specific players/groups whenever they log in to give the minimal amount of roleplay required just to shoot them or harass them. It's docking ships where they dock so that once they log in, then you can log in right on top of them and give a quick /1 /2 before right clicking your mouse furiously in their direction. It's actively chasing them everywhere they go because you can shoot them and ruin their time on the game, and get away with it.
It's harassing people out of spite. It's specifically targeting them for the sole purpose of ruining the game for them. It's harassment and trolling, falling under 1.2.
Logging in to interact with someone? That's fine, irregardless of the type of interaction.
Docking where they dock, logging when they log, and actively chasing them across Sirius, Gallia, wherever else, to do what you can within the minimal boundaries of the rules because you do not like that player for reasons A, B, and C? That's shadowlogging.
EDIT: Drrobe you ninja you
RE: Gentle Reminder - Laura C. - 08-18-2016
I wonder if some people, including vets, really can´t understand difference between usual logging to get encounters, and continuously and repeatedly targetting and hunting down certain same player(s) on as much their characters as possible to shoot them as soon as possible after they log on, and preferably to keep them off the game. The latter is what this reminder is about.
RE: Gentle Reminder - Haste - 08-18-2016
(08-18-2016, 10:26 PM)Laura C. Wrote: The latter is what this reminder is about.
My gripe is that there are also players out there who feel like they're being targeted when the "offender" isn't even aware of it. I remember being told by an ex-Admin a year or so ago that a player who he was in a faction with felt that I was personally constantly targeting them. In reality I was just actively flying GRN| ships on a daily basis and the "targeted player" had several hostile-to-GRN characters he/she was frequently logging. I literally didn't even know the characters I was shooting were flown by the same player.
Now imagine the above happened after this "warning".
My most commonly flown characters have always been "antagonists" of some form: Reavers, GRN, Nomads, The Wild. Being considered a "shadowlogger" (have to point out that's a pretty dank word) just because people are commonly shot at by my characters would be a bit unfortunate.
RE: Gentle Reminder - Arioch - 08-18-2016
Keep in mind Haste, that if someone reports someone for shadowlogging, we'll still investigate. Not like we're going to go "oh so and so is upset cause he got shot and is claiming shadowlogger - sanction!". The cases we mean, especially ones I have seen, is docking a ship at a known base where your target is consistently near, undocking and giving the bare minimum RP and blasts them. Then will log another ship at a different base that said person/group frequents, and repeats. That's different from what you mentioned.
Either way, sure someone could be pissed that you do that and report you, but like you said doesn't mean you're actually doing it on purpose. That's when we'll dig some more and see if the report is valid or not. If you're though providing RP and such, and not hunting them across Sirius anytime they log, then you're fine.
RE: Gentle Reminder - Arbs - 08-18-2016
Oh another "someone dodged the bullet" thread waggling sticks and spears. I mean no wonder its turning into a meme. Whats the drama this time?