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+--- Thread: Friends shooting Friends (/showthread.php?tid=20553)
Friends shooting Friends - Zelot - 05-16-2009
Zoner "deal" with the Corsairs
![[Image: gc1.jpg]](http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk72/Zelot827/gc1.jpg)
As you can see, not one that is easy to "cancel."
As to the Corsair population of Canaria,
![[Image: gc2.jpg]](http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk72/Zelot827/gc2.jpg)
Looking at the underlined portion of the text, it clearly sets out that Corsairs are different, separate and a sizable portion of the population, and that relations between Zoners and Corsairs on the planet are about what they are in space. So I really think two docking rings would be a intresting way to make this relation more important to both sides to maintain.
Friends shooting Friends - tyro - 05-16-2009
' Wrote:Friend asks me to protect his house.I tell him : sorry friend, but now it is my home.
I go round said friends, punch another friend, take his money.
Friend asks me to leave and not return.
Friends shooting Friends - Agmen of Eladesor - 05-16-2009
Yes, oh Mal, that was I that threw the thought out there of bringing the Hunters in. Hey, I've got to try to find additional work for my boys where we can, right? One of the things that the Guild does is provide protection for people, so doing site security for the miners would be well within our job description.
And yes, if that's throwing aviation gasoline mixed with thermite onto a raging bonfire (maybe not of the vanities, but there are some personalities definitely involved here) then it's also additional RP opportunities as well.
Yes, the info cards do indicate that Gran Canaria has a large Corsair refugee population. However, you could also consider that to not be the dominating population. I tend to consider them to be something else, actually.
Hostages.
Hey, Corsairs, we'll feed and shelter all your people for you. In return, you don't screw with us, and we'll even allow you to make some money off of us. But - we still have YOUR people living on OUR planet. So if you don't play nicely with us - we're the ones who decide whether or not they get fed. Unless of course they choose the Kilkenny cat solution.
Perhaps I'm doing the Zoner council a disservice with this thought. However, this would also bring the number of groups interacting there to five. Corsairs, Zoners, Miners, Hunters, and ... anyone else. As this would also bring additional chaos into a system that is becoming too orderly, I think that Eris would approve - or not.
This way, too, we can keep Hot Dog Buns from Omega-49.
Friends shooting Friends - Derkylos - 05-16-2009
Honestly, I think the concept of the system is somewhat flawed...how do you manage to keep an entire planet hidden from a house? A planet that is in the next door system, no less. Bretonia is also the house that is more likely to use jump holes and "alternative" routes to get around (look at how Bowex operates...). Plus, the Hessian/Molly side has been completely ignored (yeah, you're going to be "not seeing" those convoys flying past...).
Strikes me that if the Corsairs' argument is "you let us do whatever we like in the system because we protect it...oh, and we live here", the Zoners' response is "Oh, hi, Bretonia, found a little Corsair enclave, here..." and "Oh, hi, Mollys, found where those 'Sairs are coming from..."
As a Bretonian, Corsair, IMG and Zoner, I don't like the way in which the system is kept "secret" at all.
As for the argument that it secures the western edge of Corsair space, that's what the Fez is for, right?...You know, the only stationary Corsair battleship?...plus, I like the new Omega-50 less than 49...how did the Corsairs manage to build a station under constant threat of assaults from both the Coalition and the BPA, both of which are right at their home depots, while the Corsairs are at the end of their supply lines?...
Friends shooting Friends - Eppy - 05-16-2009
As a (semi-retired) Outcast and highly unethical Bretonian businessman/insurance salesman, my concerns are thus:
One: The level of Corsair presence in Omega-49 (and indeed, some of the infocards there) strongly affect the Zoner's neutrality between the Outcasts and Corsairs. As it stands within the infocards (and the RIDICULOUS number of NPCs moving through there! Sweet Mother of God!) the Zoners are basically selling the Corsairs land - some of the best land in Sirius, much better than Crete - to the Corsairs for a defense force. Where does that put the Outcasts within the delicate balance that represents Outcast->Zoner<-Corsair relations? Somewhere off the side of the page, it seems to me.
Two: It detracts from the business potential of the lesser unlawful and semi-lawful factions in the game. The IMG/Corsair relations nobody seems to really understand, and I'd think the IMG's mining interests in both the gold and niobium markets would be a huge bolster to Gran Canaria's economy, and beyond that you have the Mollys over here who'd have a great supply opportunity and a place to export a lot of their gold - yet another great place for the Zoners to make money. I'd think the Zoners wouldn't encourage the Corsair presence as much as they do, since the Corsairs aren't going to make them as much money as the IMG and Mollys are.
Three: Come on, guys, really? Maybe I'm being my usual reflexive Outcast self, but it seems to me like the Corsairs have got a chokehold on most, if not all, of southern Sirius's non-house territory. No moar plox. Thinning of the herds, pleeze?
Friends shooting Friends - Markam - 05-17-2009
Dont mind corsairs being there, but the patrols are really too much, titans are really too much except for gamma, and I suppose 47 seeing as hessian high level npcs are there. I imagine they cant be removed, but I'd be happy with just toning the amount (A LOT), the RP behind it being hidden is really retarded, I think it has generally been dropped fortunately, but BAF would be patroling it, so would mollies and hessians, I'd even go with making a JG and having trade to the planet with lanes and such, prefer it be full blown rather than half arsed.
I dont even see why it must be IMG, look at Omega 3, Bowex/BMM controls all supplies to that base and all the trade, and with a mining station in omega 3. BMM are losing ground everywhere, but well, aslong as the insane titan npc's are there then its not much that can be done, it'd be the same with IMG had they been hostile like I believe they should. Doesnt help at all that omega 49 was, and still is the best mining spot (one of the best sell prices right at the source?), the best mining spot however, gives corsairs even more reason to pirate the crap out of them, set up pirate trainsports and blow up every one of them, profit would be insane, seeing as you can land right on the bloody sell destination!
Suprisingly, I like the seperate docking point under corsair control, but I'd request that omega 50 be deleted, I know theres a plug somewhere, or a giant backspace button in a dark room. I also kind of think the Junkers should get Lanzarote, because the zoners havent a clue how to deal with scrap or something (there are too many zoner bases in general).
All in all, it seems the Zoners want omega 49 as their home system (like NL or NY), and want a monopoly on it, but I think a lot more seperate factions entering the system and making this impossible is the way to go, Zoners arent supposed to be a house, shouldnt have a planet (so splitting it in two is good) and every base in the system.
Perspective? I dont know, I'm probably biased to something, certainly not at all to Zoners, Corsairs, BHG or IMG though.
Friends shooting Friends - Bjorn - 05-17-2009
I think many of you are ignoring several things about 49. Let me tell what Ive noticed to be missing:
49 has jumpholes both to Derry and Dublin, but no Molly patrols what so ever. Actually those holes are infested with npc titans that shred gunboats.
SCRA used to have enclave on Canaria too. As some older members will certanly remeber. What, we ignored corsairs? Lived on other continent?
How the hell did corsairs manage to build a base in 50? Wouldnt it be more logical they made one in 49?
Hessians are next door, they need a patrol or two too.
Infocards really need an update.
Friends shooting Friends - Malaclypse 666 - 05-17-2009
Not ignored, Bjorn. Check back to post 13, where Dab proposed some changes in the npc population.
As to why SCRA pulled out of 49, that was a "mutual agreement" between SCRA and sombunall Zoners to reflect the Coalition's "future" reputation with Zoners, and to get some roleplay mileage out of the change.
To be honest, I've lost track of that proposed change in Coalition rep. Koolmo? Blunt?
Mindelo does seem a paradox. Others have pointed out why the base "shouldn't" be there. I'm personally still open on whether it "belongs" in 50 or not.
Good observations and suggestions so far on the "hard-coded" stuff; but as to the future of everyone's roleplay in 49, what do all the parties want to see, and how do we get "there" from "here"?
Some sort of "Convention", perhaps, with all parties represented?
Friends shooting Friends - Bjorn - 05-17-2009
Im not telling why, but im just pointing out it was there.
And if you want to make some sort of convention, mollies are all up for it.
We tried to ignore existance of 49 since MR came to be. But its kinda wierd to have 4000 cargo ship pop out from nowhere.
Friends shooting Friends - blubba - 05-17-2009
I don't see an issue with the double docking ring. I quite like it as an idea.
As for there being no Mollys, thats what the corsair patrols are about but I must admit, I would imagine the 49 side around the Dublin/Londonderry holes would be a bit of a war zone with npc's going at it regularly.
Bjorns right about all those transports 'appearing'.
I also don't know why there are no Hessian patrols around the 47 JH for the same reason.
With regard to IMG, they are a legitimate target for corsairs. They are not allied to the Zoners and get no protection from the arrangement.
The agreed deal was to run 'protection' for Gran Canaria, not anyone else. (thanks to Zealot for the screen).
At the time, it was probably a good deal but with massive changes taking place in faction diplomacy, I'm not so sure it's as good a deal as it once was.
Given the current situation, the Mollys would sell out the GC location to the Brets straight away and probably vice versa. That in itself is probably no great shakes for the Zoners presently as Bretonia is a little busy on her northern flank right now.
So I'm sorry to say that various examples above of friends and burglers to my mind don't stand up. IMG are neither friends, nor burglers. Yes, they help the economy of GC, which does indeed also help migrant corsairs there, but it's not the be all and end all. Afterall, if the mining economy was so beneficial to GC, why aren't there any Zoners doing it?
Under the terms set out above (as I understand it), they would effectively be immune to corsair piracy and infact, can expect protection from them with regard to other pirates.
Sadly, thats where the old player mentality of "I want the biggest/best/fastest/etc-ist" and to hell with the RP and they take a mining ship, with mining lasers and an IMG ID/IFF and they get upset when they get robbed.
With all that said, I see no advantage to the Zoners discarding the current deal. It does still hold advantages (See: Mining).
With regard to disadvantages, I have read elsewhere here that the heavy (Titan) corsair patrols in 49 can be very disturbing for would-be assailants. Cancelling it would negate any defence with regard to Hessian and Molly aggression. This in turn would probably make a large proportion of the GC population very nervous (civil unrest anyone?).
Lets be real here. Hessians/Mollys may not necessarily always attack Zoners but with all the corsairs on GC, they may very well be partial to the odd lone transport bound out that way...
Now, while I'm here:-
Make Lanzarote Base Junker (I'm all for that :yes:).
Mindelo base....badly placed. I think it would be better placed in 49 (controversial I know but it would explain the numbers of corsairs and would have a reason for being there (again thanks to Zealot's screen)).
My position on this in game, I am mainly a Junker with some interests in the corsairs and Rheinland and sorry for the way this post sometimes seems to jump back and forth - I'm very tired:sleep: