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+--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+--- Thread: Rights lists (/showthread.php?tid=28986)
Rights lists - cmfalconer - 10-29-2009
' Wrote:Read the faction's backgrounds, goals, and the associated player factions backgrounds and goals. There you will find everything you need to make sure you're not breaking some faction law.
He did. SCRA's goal is to take over Sirius, one system at a time. But some people bitched about that too much and it's now garbage. Apparently one faction can't take their RP seriously if it affects another faction w/ "The Inner Circle" running them.
And that whole GC thing...is Kirutsu, Kiritsu, whatever, even official? Can they make GC policy on RP that, other than taking place on a station in the guard system, doesn't really concern them?
' Wrote:You're looking at this from a black-and-white standpoint and then demanding that someone give you this list, without considering the amount of work it would involve for a rather small return.Because everyone that we've dealt with is using the black-and-white standpoint as well. So why not ask for it since people seem to be using it?
' Wrote:They need to learn to do some of this on their own and act responsibly and appropriately.And get smacked down by the "Inner Circle" when trying to do something original, creative, non pewpew RP? All RP is a power trip to get that person's ideals to be the predominant ones wouldn't you say? LPI doesn't go around saying "Oh, terribly sorry, you are correct that those slaves will have a much better life on Malta".
' Wrote:What unwritten rules? You've really not given us anything beyond 'player rights.'How 'bout the one where a player has to think about how his/her personal RP is going to affect any and all factions and players he/she will ever interact with in the course of his/her story, and prior to doing any of it, either in-game or on forums, get the blessing and permission of all said players and factions that he won't affect anything.
Status quo ftw! pew pew.
' Wrote:You've called for it, but you won't tell us what you really want.
I've read the entire thread, you're avoiding my question.
Maybe you're avoiding the answer. Alvin is asking what these sort of unwritten rules because he doesn't know them. It's like asking a 3rd grader to describe Quantum Mechanics, it's unfair.
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Yeah, this does stem from the Ontario thing, and from the GZ Artifacts thing. Maybe it's just coming to the defense of my faction-mate, maybe it's trying to sort of where the direction of Discovery's community will go. Exponential Growth leads to exponential problems, and we're starting to get the "Old Guard vs New Guard" argument again.
SCRA has tried, through Alvin's (arvg for those that don't know) efforts, to create some non-standard RP. I would have very much enjoyed policing Ontario for Citizen Katz as an SCRA (our ID allows slave/drug traffic interdiction) as part of the RP on keeping a safe Ontario. But that opportunity is down the drain because certain persons weren't notified beforehand of what could take place. Instead of "Oh, look here at this intel report. Socialism in Ontario!" blah blah; they decided that this isn't the way they want their Disco to go, and slapped down the newbie.
Coming to this big shiny server, seeing all the wonderful opportunities for RP, and taking some of those opportunities, it seems a new player has to know everything before he's allowed to start RP'ing his/her own ideas. But if they ask questions, they're also smacked down for OORP behavior on the server or lambasted on the forums ("Go read the wiki noob! Use the search noob! Not this AGAIN!").
Friendly environ we're contributing to here. Many people talk in their General Discussion threads that there's "lots of potential RP here" in many situations, but a lot of times that RP either isn't done, or tried and torpedoed by the Status Quo of Disco.
So maybe not a set of individual's rules (Server rules) or faction rules (Faction Rights), but instead, something that new players could use to help them along with their individual RP.
Edit: And I'm really just leaving, because you can't tell someone something they're not willing to listen to.
Rights lists - Cannon - 10-29-2009
' Wrote:2) Official factions that are attempting to represent the entirety of a NPC affiliation have the responsibility to be caretakers of the history and evolving storyline of the NPC faction in such a way that it remains open to involvement by non-player faction affiliates to the extent that is permitted by the server rules. Official factions have a responsibility to incorporate willing and responsible "independent" characters belonging to their NPC faction affiliation into the ordinary operations and activities taking place in the faction's territory as much as possible. Official faction members have the responsibility to set a high standard of roleplaying within character, as well as courtesy and respect during all OOC communications. Official faction members should strive to follow the spirit of the server rules to the best of their ability, and avoid rules-lawyering, loopholing, or exploiting their knowledge for personal gain. Official factions should strive to be the primary instigators of fun within the faction affiliation, and excel as problem solvers and conflict resolution experts when there are player difficulties.
Ok there we have the rule that cements Faction leadership on any kind of RP. It says that indies etc have the right to participate within server rules... what are those rules?
Not once does it mention specific guidelines about what is and what is not acceptable. I am not nit-picking here, it is too vague and too open to abuse.
Why don't you improve the language to make it clearer? We do take/accept improvements to things like this.
Reading your posts, you seem to be unhappy that official factions have some power over independent players. Have I understood you correctly?
Rights lists - Dab - 10-29-2009
' Wrote:It says that indies etc have the right to participate within server rules... what are those rules?Maybe the rules written in that thread called the.. Server Rules
' Wrote:Not once does it mention specific guidelines about what is and what is not acceptable. I am not nit-picking here, it is too vague and too open to abuse.
' Wrote:It is the indy's responsibility to research his associated NPC faction to discover what is and is not allowed. These things aren't written on the forums, but in-game. Everything you're asking for it available in-game. Admins are not going to waste time making a post saying what every faction does do, does not do, and can not do when that information is readily available to anyone that is willing to put in the work in looking up the appropriate infocards and rumors.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29561
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14788
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8574
Rights lists - arvg - 10-29-2009
I have other plots ready to go, I would like to get back to my RP...
Problem is I don't really want to poke my head up and get back on it for fear of being shot down again.
I've been told to ask what these rules are, that is what I am doing, plainly and simply.
I really don't want to be stuck in the kiddie pool, I've demonstrated a high level of RP already, and I would like to keep my story lines open for others to interact because for me, that is where I have fun.
I do not, however, want to have to have another week like this one.
All I am asking for here is for someone to warn new players "Hey look out, if you do something like XYZ someone's gonna scream at you."
oh and for the record, I have read every single one of those documents, both today and PRIOR to my experiences this week. No where was I warned about what was to happen.
Rights lists - Dab - 10-29-2009
' Wrote:I have other plots ready to go, I would like to get back to my RP...Really all you need to do for those things is to send a general outline of the story to anyone that is affected by it, along with an invitation to participate, PRIOR to starting it. As other factions become involved, notify the leaders of them as well and link them to the thread. Once you have done that, you've covered yourself. They can't complain because they didn't read it, as you gave them a link and outline.
Problem is I don't really want to poke my head up and get back on it for fear of being shot down again.
I've been told to ask what these rules are, that is what I am doing, plainly and simply.
I really don't want to be stuck in the kiddie pool, I've demonstrated a high level of RP already, and I would like to keep my story lines open for others to interact because for me, that is where I have fun.
I do not, however, want to have to have another week like this one.
All I am asking for here is for someone to warn new players "Hey look out, if you do something like XYZ someone's gonna scream at you."
oh and for the record, I have read every single one of those documents, both today and PRIOR to my experiences this week. No where was I warned about what was to happen.
You're also saying what the problem is, then telling people they have to fix it for you. If this is such a large problem, why don't you start it off and write some of these 'rules' you want. That gives us a better idea of what you're looking for, because so far most of us are confused as to what exactly you're asking for.. Everything I've heard so far is already available. You don't have to be an admin to write them up and propose them. Many non-admin players have suggested rewritten rule clauses, new rules, guidelines, etc. Even the sanction report template is written by someone who is not a mod or admin.
Rights lists - arvg - 10-29-2009
' Wrote:Why don't you improve the language to make it clearer? We do take/accept improvements to things like this.
Reading your posts, you seem to be unhappy that official factions have some power over independent players. Have I understood you correctly?
Not particularly.
I feel there needs to be some balance to the rule though. Generally I find most factions quite co-operative, but that is to me. What needs to happen is Arbitration by Moderator or by Admin needs to be added in there to give a clear alternate option.
I will be happy to redraft anything you would like me to redraft. It just seems a very one-sided document currently, placing a lot of control in one groups hands.
I'm a faction player, I don't play independents at all. I like working in a faction, however I can see how this, combined with obscure rules that people are just expected to know, can lead to many issues and problems.
Ontario is case and point.
What I am simply trying to do is make it easier for a new player to adjust quickly to fit the established gaming style in place here.
Rights lists - Cannon - 10-29-2009
I see, well my advice is to talk (OORP) on the forum with the other players and factions who you plan to interact with. Seek their agreement ahead of time and define the general boundaries of the start of the RP. This doesn't define the end, only the starting parameters.
For example, it would be unreasonable for the OPG to successfully invade O52 and capture a SCRA base without the SCRA being in on the fun. The OPG would declare success, the SCRA would go 'what the ...' and not much fun would occur. More fun is had when both sides agree to play together. This is usually an OORP agreement.
Rights lists - arvg - 10-29-2009
' Wrote:Really all you need to do for those things is to send a general outline of the story to anyone that is affected by it, along with an invitation to participate, PRIOR to starting it. As other factions become involved, notify the leaders of them as well and link them to the thread. Once you have done that, you've covered yourself. They can't complain because they didn't read it, as you gave them a link and outline.
You see this is what I wanted, along with other rules that are out there. This is just one of the examples of an unwritten rule that really needs to be written down.
If you want me to do this then I will, but I haven't the foggiest what other rules are out there.
I do, at times, feel like a blind man led out into a minefield and told "hey there chap, come on you should know the way..."
Rights lists - Dab - 10-29-2009
' Wrote:You see this is what I wanted, along with other rules that are out there. This is just one of the examples of an unwritten rule that really needs to be written down.It's not a rule though, it's a suggestion. It isn't something you -have- to do, but something that will definitely help if you do it. Again, if you want things like this you need to write them out, or else we don't know what you're asking for. We can always clarify them, but you have to give us the overview first.
If you want me to do this then I will, but I haven't the foggiest what other rules are out there.
I do, at times, feel like a blind man led out into a minefield and told "hey there chap, come on you should know the way..."
Rights lists - arvg - 10-29-2009
well we have three now. I will keep going, and if any occur to anyone else they should be mentioned here.
I mean take the Apocalypse situation, we now have a clear "Don't do this or this will happen" example of what poor RP can lead to. This needs to be clarified for people.