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+--- Thread: Corsairs, who are they? (/showthread.php?tid=33747)
Corsairs, who are they? - Sprolf - 01-31-2010
Corsairs are.... Corsairs.
There's no point in trying to classify them as anything else.
Why does it matter if they're a "house" or not?
They're Corsairs, that should be more than good enough for them.
Corsairs, who are they? - BaconSoda - 01-31-2010
' Wrote:The Outcasts have ties to Bretonia, the actual government of Bretonia, and our structure resembles a house better than the Corsairs. We have criminal elements, a lot of them, but we also have a stable government and an actual navy instead of a bunch of rowdy ruffians banding together when their home is threatened.
I disagree here. The Outcast ties to the government are definitely not as substantial as, say, the Hogosha's ties to the Kusari government (which is really all we can compare this to). Bretonia doesn't have any vested interests in keeping the Outcasts afloat. It's just as deep as the five units of cardimine you're allowed in your cargo hold when passing through Bretonia.
It might have been a little different in the days of silliness, but, the days of silliness directly contradicted the RP
in Tau-23. The Outcasts there attack the Tau-23 Gate Construction Site in great force because BMM is encroaching on Outcast territory. This doesn't seem like a kind of hand-holdey type of relationship. It more seems to me like Bretonia and the Outcasts are looking the other way from each other during their respective wars, which have both been, more or less, orchestrated by the Corsairs and their allies (the Hogosha).
Now, the Corsairs, on the other hand, have a deep relationship with a very substantial part of the Kusari government. By deep, I mean they know some guys and give them a bunch of money, and then the Bretonia-Kusari war happens. Plans have gone awry, though, as Kusari has not gone north into Tau-23 to cut off the Cardimine trade at all, but, instead, attacked Core-Space Bretonia. But, still, the fact that the Corsairs could manipulate a house government through the use of the Hogosha is some pretty substantial proof that they have, at least, a little influence in Kusari decisions through the Hogosha. Read the news if you don't believe me. Corsair and Outcast both state what the war is really about openly, I believe.
Corsairs, who are they? - Dennis Jameson - 01-31-2010
' Wrote:I disagree here. The Outcast ties to the government are definitely not as substantial as, say, the Hogosha's ties to the Kusari government (which is really all we can compare this to). Bretonia doesn't have any vested interests in keeping the Outcasts afloat. It's just as deep as the five units of cardimine you're allowed in your cargo hold when passing through Bretonia.
It might have been a little different in the days of silliness, but, the days of silliness directly contradicted the RP
in Tau-23. The Outcasts there attack the Tau-23 Gate Construction Site in great force because BMM is encroaching on Outcast territory. This doesn't seem like a kind of hand-holdey type of relationship. It more seems to me like Bretonia and the Outcasts are looking the other way from each other during their respective wars, which have both been, more or less, orchestrated by the Corsairs and their allies (the Hogosha).
Now, the Corsairs, on the other hand, have a deep relationship with a very substantial part of the Kusari government. By deep, I mean they know some guys and give them a bunch of money, and then the Bretonia-Kusari war happens. Plans have gone awry, though, as Kusari has not gone north into Tau-23 to cut off the Cardimine trade at all, but, instead, attacked Core-Space Bretonia. But, still, the fact that the Corsairs could manipulate a house government through the use of the Hogosha is some pretty substantial proof that they have, at least, a little influence in Kusari decisions through the Hogosha. Read the news if you don't believe me. Corsair and Outcast both state what the war is really about openly, I believe.
The alliance between Bretonia and the Nation is open to interpretation. I can tell you, however, that the BMM construction site in Tau 23 doesn't make any bloody sense since there's a war going on right next door.
As for the Hogosha... that's also open to interpretation. I choose to view the Corsair Hogosha alliance the same bloody way I view the Liberty Rogue Outcast "alliance"... we have something they can profit from, and thus we are allied. The same goes for the Hogosha, and I'm sure -if- Cardamine was brought off the market and the Hogosha found some better means of making an income other than artifacts the Corsairs would soon find themselves standing alone.
Oh... and the Outcast Bretonia alliance is a direct one, unlike the Corsair "Kusari" alliance. And quite honestly, being able to use Cardamine in Bretonia is a far greater step forward than trading artifacts. What'd happen in a couple of decades when most of Bretonia are "hooked"?
All in all, I think that your statement regarding the "insubstantial" nature regarding the alliance we have with Bretonia is rubbish, dear sir.
Corsairs, who are they? - BaconSoda - 01-31-2010
I rather find your claim that the Hogosha-Corsair alliance is insubstantial insufficient in its grounds. The Corsairs have manipulated a war, and not just a war, but the first long-term inter-House war. This, to me, seems like a very substantial relationship. On the other hand, the Outcasts still do attack their "allies" and don't have really any open trade agreements. Sure, you can have 5 units of cardimine in your hold, but, what is five units? Furthermore, the social elite of the Bretonia don't see Cardimine as a symbol of power, but still as a drug to be looked down upon.
Now, in Kusari this is much the opposite. The Corsairs have built a very lucrative relationship with the Hogosha, and, though Artifacts are still restricted to Hogosha only, artifacts have become a symbol of high social standing. Everyone strives to be the owner of a grand artifact collection. If you can lay claim to such a collection, you have power. This is much closer to open trade than in Bretonia, I believe.
Furthermore, the Corsair allies in Kusari are a fully legal entity. The Outcasts have no such status. They are still criminals in Bretonia, and their allies there are still criminals. The Corsairs have a much larger pull on what happens in Kusari because of this legal influence.
But, it is open to interpretation, yes. I just find it hard to believe that the Outcasts have more influence in Bretonia than the Corsairs do in Kusari when the Corsairs instigated the first long-term war between the Houses.
Corsairs, who are they? - ... kur nubėgo? - 02-01-2010
' Wrote:No. It's not enough. They don't have the economic might to even compete with the major houses. They don't have the natural resources. They don't have the numbers. The Corsairs are starving, Outcasts are junkies. Even if they ally it is unlikely that they can win any sustained war.
Of but this doesn't decriber it well neither respresents somehow in human history.
For example Sparta. Was based only on inferior slave economy system. Alltought had much bigger military might over Athens (and don't forget that Sparta was more advanced in one point of view, of women rights which were oh hell more early before they were started to be appriciated in rest of the world). And to reenforce the comparison -Every- corsair can be a soldier. Each newborn from the start is getting adopted to the ship he gonna fly.
So it's doubtful. What is from those money fi you can't buy the best material for the ships you need anyway. And guess Crete is vast resource clod, which other houses can't really access with their economical power.
But you are right in some point. They are far far from the house system. Since lacks a lot of other material and needs to take it by force from others.
Corsairs, who are they? - Exsiled_one - 02-01-2010
Yeah... Can someone actually post me some ingame or lore text saying that there are young pilots with age 15-20, and young liberty admirals with age of 21 and things like that?
Or is that all the wishful thinking to relate your characters to your own years?
*this wasn't aimed at anyone but at a group as whole
Corsairs, who are they? - ... kur nubėgo? - 02-01-2010
' Wrote:Yeah... Can someone actually post me some ingame or lore text saying that there are young pilots with age 15-20, and young liberty admirals with age of 21 and things like that?
Or is that all the wishful thinking to relate your characters to your own years?
*this wasn't aimed at anyone but at a group as whole
Forgat the lore corsair lore of how corsairs accept full members of the nation? with shieldless ship sent to the distend jumphole at the boy of age 16?
Corsairs, who are they? - Exsiled_one - 02-01-2010
I actually wanted to see that either in ingame texts or at some good page.
Since wiki is being massively edited now it's not recognized as a place to base lore off.
I'm just wondering and I don't feel like opening a new topic for it.
But I see tons of young attractive ship captains, or experienced 21yearold space dogs. Somehow I don't see it in reality. I can even understand Corsairs but that means they've got kids and equipment to waste
Corsairs, who are they? - ... kur nubėgo? - 02-01-2010
I am not in the game at the moment. But it is vanila lore and it was mentioned in one of the cretes info cards. But agian at givent time I won't log on just to search for it by re-entering the bar.
Corsairs, who are they? - Exsiled_one - 02-01-2010
That's ok I'll find it.