' Wrote:Personally, I dont dislike the omicroners, and dont hate them. For who are you speaking there?

You know, you could apply the "every person sources their own fate and if people hate you you MUST have done something" to anyone and anything... even the way some people feel about some moderators, admins, and devs. Its kind of a hollow argument. So if I hate someone, its automatically their fault?

' Wrote:Don't know where you've got this information from, but it's not applying to the ZTC. We've made food supplies with three, sometimes even four or five Whales about five times a weak, over a longer period of time. The effect: Being confronted with such forged facts. Do we have to throw around with screenshots just to testify how forged the pseudo-rp reasons of the Corsair players were?
Also, it's complete nonsense to expect in-game roleplay in every timezone by every group. Ironically those who are crying loudest about missing food supplies are especially those who weren't never playing in our timezone. Nobody's fault, but also no argument at all. Exploiting this fact is a pathetic example for powergaming and, to take if further, anti-social behaviour.

' Wrote:Nah, the problem is that some cannot stand the fact that there's quite a group of players on this server, and believe me that it's not only the Omicroners, who are not tempted to polish some preferable apples for the sake of some crappy benefit of not being targetted by lolwut raids. The basic problem here might be as well that there's abolsutely no list one could use to know who of these inventory players demand that sacrifice to compensate other stuff actually nobody can be aware of.

' Wrote:Actually, what for? For their own faults? Sure, everybody likes that of course, but you've also explained why it shouldn't happen:

' Wrote:That's the reason of this permanent forging. First there was a clear miscalculation of the own limits on Corsair side, then any means the Corsair players could summon failed, and in the end the situation has worsened to an extent where they have perverted the known RP. All of that without even a justifiable goal inRP. But still everybody's wondering why I'm calling this crap.

' Wrote:Sure, it wasn't really fair to play the roles against Zoner characters because passivity, an important aspect of Zoner RP, is the best option to make decisions, but while they were escalating further and further without being able to reach their goals they still had enough opportunities to back off. In the aftermath of their own failures it's pretty ridiculous how fact are being forged. Okay, I consider this to be the last thing anybody can do when screwing up things.

' Wrote:Of course they did, and I'm sure that mostly those who thought they could reach their own satisfaction through senseless powergaming suiting oorp motives must be pretty annoyed to see the result of their own doings. There wasn't the slightest idea of RP when the Corsair factions denied any forum RP at the time when the [A] started to enjoy their bandwagon. The initial mistake that was made by this, and it wasn't Zoners' or Omicroners'.

' Wrote:The funny thing about it is that the vast majority is relying on hearsay. Or call it "neat" if you like.
Okay, what's going to come next? Just to give me something to laugh about. The demand to pay their ISP costs?

' Wrote:Nah, cannot work. Those making the first mistake have to make the first real step to a mending of relations. Anything else is inacceptable. If we'd have screwed something rp wise I'd be the first to acknowledge the ncessity of this step, but all of this wasn't happening based on RP ;-)

' Wrote:Of course there is a perfect reaction - it's PLAYING the role, instead of hiding behind a pixelhunter bandwagon.
I understand completely that nobody likes to be confronted with his or her own mistakes but we had to apply this method in order to draw a clear line what we allow other players to do based on oorp intentions. So, I for myself understand the nature, the scope and the motives of such blames completely.

' Wrote:But we are not going to correct a wrong with another. It's not worth it ;-)

' Wrote:Personally, I dont dislike the omicroners, and dont hate them. For who are you speaking there?

You know, you could apply the "every person sources their own fate and if people hate you you MUST have done something" to anyone and anything... even the way some people feel about some moderators, admins, and devs. Its kind of a hollow argument. So if I hate someone, its automatically their fault?

' Wrote:that topic can be closed now - the tone of one of the moderators got a bit too hostile.for my taste - i usually abstain from personal attacks - but that is why i have you on ignore mostly - and keep ignoring you on the dev board, dab. - your tone simply is too hostile - too self absorbed.
the first 40 posts are very constructive indeed ( plus / minus one or two ) - the following ones became mostly throwing insults and accusations around. - not too constructive - but being a good example of the profound grief.

' Wrote:I would say, that since the Zoners left the house space in order to escape it's laws and regulations, the official and even indie factions still operate on the same basis as, say, the RM or LN.

I always thought of the Zoners much like the LR, a loose organized group, freedom and a total disconcern for any laws, smuggling, trading, hunting. But it is also how the ID is presented, it does not allow as much freedom as it should have.

Small organized groups are fine, but when you have whole factions, who have direct control over stations, laws and capital ships, it falls rather odd.

' Wrote:1) Not nessesarily 'screwing up', but they've changed the Zoners from what they really were in Vanilla. The TAZ are recluses and the OSI act fine. What isn't fine is the [)c(] / [)o(] portrayal of the Omicron Zoners and the introduction of Zoner Capital ships. You're lovely people and all, but you've changed the meaning of Zoner quite a bit.

2) The Zoners are just people who aren't too big on house laws and like to live in anarchy, in a fragile political system where no one can tell them what to do.

Furthermore, the Zoners are lovely and all, but they shouldn't have capital ships, or any kinds of ships really. Perhaps a couple of small ones, which are fairly open market, but not massive warships.

Zoners shouldn't be cowardly pacifists like you make them out to be, if someone messes around in their space, they kick them out with force, if someone breaks one of their few, loose laws, they shoot them.

The Zoners also shouldn't hump the leg of the Order so much, as the Nomads aren't actually too interested in the Zoners. The Nomads are actually on the defensive in the Nomad-Order conflict, it's the Zoners who throw the punches by assosiating with the Order and making themselves targets.

3) Stop being so rude and protective of your space, no offense. Get violent every now and again, enforce your survival by being the baddest motherloves in the area, not by asking politely. People shouldn't look at the threat of the [)o(] attacking them and piss themselves laughing, nor should you hide behind Faction Right 5. Then again, learn the balance and apolagise where needed, so Corsair fleets don't rain down on you again, for example.

Cut down on the capital ships, sorry indies, but they're really stupid and just make you a threat to those around you, and not the good kind, it makes people nervous. What need have Zoners for warships anyway, it's already proven that capital ships are an offensive tool, snubs are a superior defensive force. Which brings me to the next point.

Stop assosiating with the Order so closely. Currently the Zoners are the only real ally of the Order, and the Order have a lot of enemies. The Nomads have no interest in you if you just leave them alone, the Zoners shouldn't care if the Nomads were a threat to humanity anyway, they live on the fringes of space to escape the bullcrap of humanity, not encourage it. You're just sticking your hand in a fire for no real reason on this one.

' Wrote:Zoner Capital Ships:

Guess what? This is not another Zoner thread. Idiots will not know this, so we will preface with that.

I decided to think, and so I wondered. What did I wonder about? Zoner capital ships. You probably wondered about them too.

Recently, people who understand how to press the right click button of the mouse and hold it down for several seconds proposed that Zoners should not have capital ships. (It seems that Supernovas and Novas are too much of an imaginary fiscal expense in their lovely lives, which leads us to question how they have enough time to post on the forums, as opposed to do one trade run in this brilliant economy.)

The arguments proposed were that Zoners did not have the resources, namely the credits or materials to produce capital ships. Another one proposed was that the time between Zoners having capital ships and not having them was too short. All other arguments proposed were the usual dribble of bias and so on. (If there are any others, please PM or Skype me and I will modify this post to include a counter for them.)

So, I looked forth from the bridge of my Rheinland Cruiser and it hit me. How did this ship get produced? Was Rheinland not on the brink of material ruin? Finance depleted, leader killed and all resources drained? In 17 years they got money, resources and a "leader". Amazing. How did they do so?

I do not truly know, but Rheinland is kind of fun the way it is now.

I decided to move to the Omicrons and I got scared; mainly by the Outcasts, which are infinitely better than the Corsairs, and their collective, gargantuan amount of capital ships. The Outcasts and Corsairs both pirate, both trade, one in Cardamine and one in artifacts, and apart from that one has food problems and the other has sex problems. Seventeen years ago the Sabre and Titan were the magnum opus in Sirius ship-building for these pirate factions. That was it. The end of the line.

I shrugged it off. They are fun. The Corsair GB has horns and the OC Destroyer smiled at me, so I thought the whole thing was swell and I moved on.

I turned my head to the left and behold The Order came into sight. An organisation only recently formed with a full loadout of ships, including capital ships. I thought about it and I figure their agents covertly extracted funds out of whatever organisation they infiltrated, and that their alliance with the Corsairs, another faction who also magically formed capitals, paid off well. That or their research allowed them to make a lot of ships quickly. Or certain alliances The Order made funded them quite well.

The quick flow of thoughts made me push it all away and concentrate on the issue at hand.

I squinted and looked at the Zoners. Centuries of trading. Endless resources in the area they inhibit. No known intelligent enemies to hinder their growth. An RP which consists heavily of trading. An alliance with The Order and hence resources to higher order technology. An alliance with the GMG which results in lower fuel prices.

So, now I sat atop Tekagi's Arch, which was magically fixed after the explosion which would have taken out most of the interior, the expected raids by Blood Dragons and bombardment by the Kusari Naval Forces, and repopulated by Aoi Isejin which managed to sneak past the two aforementioned factions, as well as the GMG and agents of The Order.

While I was atop this Arch I reflected on why this was, that is, why certain factions have capital ships. I guess it is because capital ships make the game fun without altering too much, especially since they can easily be taken down by two bombers.

I also figure for those who are inclined to depress and hold the right-click button of the mouse, since other actions are a tad to complex for them, they need something else. That is something new to see and unleash their fury on. I propose that the Whale and other 5k's got boring and they wanted something new. After all, when all you have is the mouse, you need to see something new on the screen no?

' Wrote:You sir, being an biased member of zoner faction you'r talking about, just fear to face the tence and consequences of ingame\forum rp decitions made. This is not the secret that zoners where threating corsairs and then calling half'o'sirius to save their arses on nine. All words about that were told before, so I'm not going to talk of it again. Then about the Core involvement - you called an Order ships to pew pew sairs, so core went in to pew pew on order caps because of good fact them being far from isis.

' Wrote:I do, however, believe that we need to reign in on the technology available to us. I'm not opposed to seeing Jinkusus or Aquilons in the game, but I do think they need to be turned into ships requiring special permission to use. Those ships were intended to be colony ships to spread and aid Zoner research. While there are a good number of people roleplaying mobile Freeports and doing good things with their Zoner Battleships, we have just as many beating the war drums and advancing with them on other groups. That's not what a Zoner would do. Cam is probably the only person who I feel comfortable with roleplaying a warship Jinkusu, as he's done significant work in and around Delta to support it.

' Wrote:I don't hate the Omicroners, but I'm among those who feel that their idea of Zoner roleplay and how they conduct themselves on the forums isn't quite on the mark. Dab pretty much covered my reasons why too.

Aaaaaannnnndddd this is a discussion about Zoners. I actually think we're having a decent one for once and we've got some ideas and feelings that are being aired out fairly calmly. If you'd please, don't turn this thread into a slap to the administration team.

' Wrote:Here's why you (the Omicroners mainly, not the TAZ and OSI) disliked as a group, as far as I can see:

You're arrogant, aggressive and egotistical, whether this is purely restricted to within RP realms or not is a matter of opinion. But those traits are exactly what would get a group like the Zoners in trouble, and when you cause trouble, you as a faction may be able to hide away in O74, but other Zoners, especially indies, can't. You also have developed a habit of complaining when things don't go your way, in an OORP sense, this thread being a typical example, it's a complaint (directed at people who dislike you) thinly hidden behind a question, which doesn't endear you to many (if any) people. And all the whining about Corsair RP in the past few pages pretty much highlights the problem.

The other factions seem to just keep their heads down and not get involved in stuff, they deal with complaints against them diplomatically and generally try to keep people happy. This is what Zoners should be doing to avoid getting on the wrong end of large groups our houses. I mean, hell, even Cam, who always seemed ready to pick fights, was/is able to maintain stability at Freeport 11, he even managed to resolve a conflict between the Core and the Zoners through diplomacy.

So, if you don't want people to hate you, be more open and accepting, learn to be diplomats, as you've already tried learning to be warriors and that didn't get you very far. Basically, ask the TAZ and OSI how they manage to keep their diplomacy so nicely intact, and when someone questions or criticises you, do not immediately start whining or insulting them, accept what they say, even if it may appear hostile, and take it on board as advice on what you should/should not do.
Also, I'll just mention here that the Corsairs are not, and never were dependent on Zoner supplies. We survived for hundreds of years before FP9 and FP5 popped up, and while OSI and others still supply us with food, so do the Hogosha, IND, AFA and Junkers, as well as Samura, the biggest corporation in Sirius. Also, those deals date back to long before the conflict, go find the first Samura - Corsair comm threads and you'll see what I mean. So no, we didn't change our RP and try to rewrite history just to kill some Omicroners.
Oh and for the record, while I think some of the stuff you have done is hilariously ridiculous, and I very much enjoyed our conflicts, as I got to blow lots of stuff up, I do not inherently dislike you as a group, so don't assume what I have said above is said out of hatred or spite.

Quote:dirty Corsair with a stupid, biased opinion.

' Wrote:Dirty Corsair is acceptable. Stupid, biased opinion, is not.

' Wrote:being an biased member of zoner faction