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+--- Thread: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? (/showthread.php?tid=115913)
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Sabru - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 09:40 AM)Mímir Wrote: I've come across suppliers for the base in Manchester (I think it is your base?) twice on two different unlawful characters, the first time I was oorply accused of metagaming and the second time I got the silent treatment. So from my perspective, POB's rarely - if ever - contribute towards roleplay in-game.
Just a different viewpoint here. ive had dealings with that base as an unlawful. Me and another [M]olly pirated the guys around that base for 10 mill total (plus some interesting RP) while being shot at by said base.
We got nothing but RP from the guys that were around the base, so if done right things can work well.
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Lythrilux - 07-14-2014
If a base is Core one,
and Core one bases can be blown up without RP,
does that mean you're free to metagame them?
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Zayne Carrick - 07-14-2014
Quote:Perhaps many players did not know yet how much effort and sympathy one can develop during building and upgrading a RP idea with a base. I ensure you it is! Try by yourself. The player, whose name was like "Honey", who was killing as much bases as he could for fun, then tried to build one by himself, his base blocker castle. He said: "Oh I did not know that, it is really complex to build a base and to keep it running."
The bases are killing the factions who own them. Period. Exceptions are made if said faction is trading one by nature.
Back in days Diamant killed [RHA], Goldern Coin killed [M]ollys, Academia del Perdido, Puerta del Sol and Puerta del Diablo killed all Corsairs, King's Kross and that station ar Sprague's orbit killed Bowex/BMM, Krupp Munitions and Eisen Mining Facility killed DHC.
And those are only examples I know about.
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Mímir - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 10:36 AM)Lord.MacRae Wrote: Please click on my name and then go to the threads I wrote for RPing the base. Also search the forum how many other players opened a thread for RP purpose with the base.
I agree there are players just build a base for their own, silently, without writing Forum threads. But that could be also some kind of RP.
That's fine and I am not saying there are no merits to PoB-building. You do create some forum roleplay (and sometimes in-game events) for some players, but at the same time you radically alter the gaming experience for an unknown range of other players, that now have to deal with your base. You put it ~16K from Holmfirth, one of the few allied safe havens for Corsairs, in the middle of a field. That has a huge impact on other players, and as such I think your base ought to be served a constant engagement notice. I mean, I see your base and your ships on scanners when I undock, it is that close and that is not conducive to "better" game- or roleplay. In-rp it doesn't seem plausible that BMM will start heavy mining ops on the doorsteps of a much feared environmentally concerned hardcore terrorist faction.
(07-14-2014, 10:36 AM)Lord.MacRae Wrote:
Perhaps just saying "I want 10 millions" is not enough and even a little extensive?
RP does not only exist in game, only chance for a base tp RP itself is the base description you can read after you docked.
And your meeting with the Tremonts, defending the area of the base was no good RP? Be honest please.
I think 10 mil or die is an excellent ice breaker. Last time I tried 200,000 credits on a different character, and that got turned down so whatevs. I loved the Tremonts, but I think if they weren't defending your base they would be logged in and rp'ing with someone else.
I am opposed to the idea that bases necessarily create "more" roleplay and that they should be treated delicately because of that.
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Lord.MacRae - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 12:03 PM)Mímir Wrote: I am opposed to the idea that bases necessarily create "more" roleplay and that they should be treated delicately because of that.
I do not say "more" delicately, I say fair. Buid it <=> destroy
it has to be fair so that every player can have fun here, even the agressors with RP instead of "just shoot it down quick".
The base is 20k away from the Gaian base so that every Corsair who is visiting his friends can dock and undock there without being harmed in any way. I am sorry that you can not fly directly trough the base but have to take a little way round.
(07-14-2014, 12:03 PM)Mímir Wrote: You do create some forum roleplay (and sometimes in-game events) for some players, but at the same time you radically alter the gaming experience for an unknown range of other players, that now have to deal with your base.
I am sorry, but that is untrue. Only because you are not involved does not mean others aren't also. We have many contracts with miners, transport organisations, freelancing transports and also good and daily in-game relationships to the Bretonian police for example. Many people use the base in-game every day, may it be for trading, mining, living or visiting the bar. It seems it was the first time you being around there for a long time.
True is that Fortitudine altered the gaming-experience, Manchester now is not only a system for passing through quickly, no, it is now a flourishing place where some people like to take a stop for a longer time, having fun with their characters.
Anyways please keep that discussion in general.
(07-14-2014, 10:56 AM)Sabre Wrote: Just a different viewpoint here. ive had dealings with that base as an unlawful. Me and another [M]olly pirated the guys around that base for 10 mill total (plus some interesting RP) while being shot at by said base.
We got nothing but RP from the guys that were around the base, so if done right things can work well.
Thank you, it was also fun with you two guys. Never seen someone avoiding platform bombaredment so effectively and balletic.
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Mímir - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 12:20 PM)Lord.MacRae Wrote: The base is 20k away from the Gaian base so that every Corsair who is visiting his friends can dock and undock there without being harmed in any way. I am sorry that you can not fly directly trough the base but have to take a little way round.
It is no more than a maximum of 18K away, as seen here. Had Gaian and Corsair players been active like they were in the past, it is extremely unlikely that you'd been able to build there at all.
(07-14-2014, 12:20 PM)Lord.MacRae Wrote: We have many contracts with miners, transport organisations, freelancing transports and also good and daily in-game relationships to the Bretonian police for example.
That's all fine, but in the grand scheme of things, when miners spam hostiles with //-messages, suppliers stay silent and even the coppers dock without a word, how much does it really contribute with in terms of quality over quantity? This is not specifically about your base, it happens with every single base because players invest themselves so heavily in those pointless pixels.
(07-14-2014, 12:20 PM)Lord.MacRae Wrote: It seems it was the first time you being around there for a long time.True is that Fortitudine altered the gaming-experience, Manchester now is not only a system for passing through quickly, no, it is now a flourishing place where some people like to take a stop for a longer time, having fun with their characters.
No. Manchester is quite often frequented by Corsairs, as a place people could stop and have fun with their characters.
There are two sides in this base-building madness, and that is precisely why I think that bases should not be offered any special protection - they are armed and dangerous and drastically alter the gaming experience for all, so I think everyone should have a right to remove them at their own leisure.
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Fortinbras - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 02:56 PM)Mímir Wrote: That's all fine, but in the grand scheme of things, when miners spam hostiles with //-messages, suppliers stay silent and even the coppers dock without a word, how much does it really contribute with in terms of quality over quantity? This is not specifically about your base, it happens with every single base because players invest themselves so heavily in those pointless pixels.
....
No. Manchester is quite often frequented by Corsairs, as a place people could stop and have fun with their characters.
There are two sides in this base-building madness, and that is precisely why I think that bases should not be offered any special protection - they are armed and dangerous and drastically alter the gaming experience for all, so I think everyone should have a right to remove them at their own leisure.
There are two sides. Correct.
Why not give BOTH sides a chance ?
As somebody who loves to interact with others, who sometimes takes care NOT to evade a system I can see holds Tagged ships that are sure to pirate me, as somebody wo even LIKES to be pirated - if its done well :
Why not take some time to RP about the Base ?
Most players would agree that fighting about a Base is fun.
But that doesn´t meen getting 10 *BiGBombastics* together to take it out.
That means interacting. In RPG. Threatening, prolonging the fight. Harassing, arguing ... one day getting the upper hand, the other day taking a blow.
We do not fight a war here - a fight you have to win at all costs. ( and even in RL there are different views on this )
We PLAY at fighting a war - with the target to keep playing the next Battle. The next encounter.
I hope you see the difference. Because I think that if you choose to play WITH us, and not AGAINST us - you might actually LIKE the experience. Most others do.
You see, even if you´re only after the thrill of the hunt, the game is over if you kill.
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - St.Denis - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 02:56 PM)Mímir Wrote: Had Gaian and Corsair players been active like they were in the past, it is extremely unlikely that you'd been able to build there at all.Well they aren't and the Base exists. That fact could be said about a lot of Bases. That field, with its low yield, has generally been ignored for quite a while. Now it is active and Manchester does have quite a bit of activity other than people passing through from Liberty to Bretonia and back.
Quote:That's all fine, but in the grand scheme of things, when miners spam hostiles with //-messages, suppliers stay silent and even the coppers dock without a word, how much does it really contribute with in terms of quality over quantity? This is not specifically about your base, it happens with every single base because players invest themselves so heavily in those pointless pixels.Not everybody, in this Game, derives the same pleasures from the same actions. You may enjoy going around in you pixel ships shooting other pixels ships. Some people don't want to do that and get enjoyment out of building things and RPing on the Forums etc. What seems pointless to you doesn't make it pointless for others. If everybody in the World was the same, what a boring World it would be.
Quote:No. Manchester is quite often frequented by Corsairs, as a place people could stop and have fun with their characters.If they were that frequent (and referring you to your first statement) I am surprised the Base actually made it to Core 3 seeing as the stringent rules involved in actually getting a Base up to that point.
Quote:There are two sides in this base-building madness, and that is precisely why I think that bases should not be offered any special protection - they are armed and dangerous and drastically alter the gaming experience for all, so I think everyone should have a right to remove them at their own leisure.1) Quite a few Bases aren't armed and possibly therefore not dangerous (unless you are a blind pilot with a defective scanning system). And I am sure the Corsairs have more than one (Cambridge springs to mind).
2) And pray do tell how they 'drastically alter the gaming experience for all'? See my response to quote 2.
Quote:so I think everyone should have a right to remove them at their own leisureIs this with or without proper RP?.
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RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Mímir - 07-15-2014
(07-14-2014, 09:40 PM)St.Denis Wrote: Well they aren't and the Base exists. That fact could be said about a lot of Bases. That field, with its low yield, has generally been ignored for quite a while. Now it is active and Manchester does have quite a bit of activity other than people passing through from Liberty to Bretonia and back.
There is some merit to that, however I don't think bases deserve to get any special treatment so to speak. That activity can be generated lots of other ways.
(07-14-2014, 09:40 PM)St.Denis Wrote: Not everybody, in this Game, derives the same pleasures from the same actions. You may enjoy going around in you pixel ships shooting other pixels ships. Some people don't want to do that and get enjoyment out of building things and RPing on the Forums etc. What seems pointless to you doesn't make it pointless for others. If everybody in the World was the same, what a boring World it would be.
My issue is that people seem to get so attached to their bases, and naturally so, that the base's survival becomes paramount to everything else, and that is not good. I think bases should get destroyed, new ones should be built instead and folks should relax. If people want to roleplay their own space station on the forum, that's just fine because that does not directly affect me in-game.
(07-14-2014, 09:40 PM)St.Denis Wrote: If they were that frequent (and referring you to your first statement) I am surprised the Base actually made it to Core 3 seeing as the stringent rules involved in actually getting a Base up to that point.
Well, frequented by Corsair standards (there are few, agreed), but frequented no less.
(07-14-2014, 09:40 PM)St.Denis Wrote: 1) Quite a few Bases aren't armed and possibly therefore not dangerous (unless you are a blind pilot with a defective scanning system). And I am sure the Corsairs have more than one (Cambridge springs to mind).
2) And pray do tell how they 'drastically alter the gaming experience for all'? See my response to quote 2.
I don't really have much issue with 1) depending on how it is used by miners and traders. It can wreck pirating grounds completely. 2) Well that's quite obvious, isn't it? Bases shoot at me, my enemies or targets can dock there - they might even be able to see my docking messages, making docking / PVP-death an issue for me and so on. PoB's affect everyone in range of it, there's no point in being unrealistic about that and maybe it would be a good idea to show some consideration, no matter how many hours people put into their PoB or how entitled they feel to a slice of Disco space because of their endless grinding. Just sayin'.
(07-14-2014, 09:40 PM)St.Denis Wrote: Is this with or without proper RP?.
I s'pose that depends on what you mean by "proper RP". To me, this is fine, I'd feel confident to wreck a base based on that, but to be honest I'd prefer it if I could just bombard the base and the roleplay with whoever shows in-game.
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - St.Denis - 07-15-2014
(07-15-2014, 12:06 AM)Mímir Wrote: There is some merit to that, however I don't think bases deserve to get any special treatment so to speak. That activity can be generated lots of other ways.Activity can be generated many ways and at the present time Base building/supplying is one of these.
At the present there are just under 70 Bases in existence. These require Reinforced Alloy, Food, Water and Oxygen to keep them going. A Core 4 Base requires 8640 RA, 1920 Food, 1920 Oxygen and 1920 Water every day just to keep it going. If this is done in 3 trips each taking 10 mins (generally a bit of under estimation) that is 30 minutes/Base, which equates to 35 hours of activity each day just to keep the Base running.
Quote:My issue is that people seem to get so attached to their bases, and naturally so, that the base's survival becomes paramount to everything else, and that is not good. I think bases should get destroyed, new ones should be built instead and folks should relax. If people want to roleplay their own space station on the forum, that's just fine because that does not directly affect me in-game.I have no problem Bases getting destroyed but I believe that the effort put in to destroying them should be proportionate to the effort put in to building them.
For example These are the figures I worked out for the construction of a Core 4 Base and is now part of Daedric's Base Building Guide:
Quote:5 x StorageNow, if we use the 10 minutes to get each load (which is seriously underestimated as an average) then to get to this stage it would take 4610 minutes (76.8 hours). That is quite a lot of time and effort that people have put in just to build it. This also doesn't include the time, using the same time scale of 10 minutes/trip, of 30 minutes/day to supply it with the essentials. This also if you notice doesn't include the trips for getting the fuel for the shield and the reserve stock of all 3 Repair Materials.
2 x Weapon Platforms
1 x Shield Module
1 x Docking Module Factory
1 x Jump Drive Factory
1 x Cloaking Device Factory
1 x Hyperspace Scanner Factory
It will cost 642.5M to build and will take a total of 461 Trips using a 5ker.
Now with the newest shield figures of protecting a Base from 97% of the damage inflicted (originally 99%) it takes 10 Battleships, each with 3 Cerbs, just under 1.5 hours to destroy a Core 4 base with all 3 Repair Materials. That, in total time taken, is 15 man hours to destroy something that has taken, using the 10 minutes/trip, 76.8 hours to build.
The biggest problem that I have with Base sieges is the part were the attackers wait until a low population time to initiate the attack and then get their 'mates' to log in and 'hey presto' 1.5 hours later the Base is destroyed and the Owner gets up in the morning to find it has gone. This smacks of 'thieves in the night'. This isn't RP this is just people getting their 'kicks' from kicking over others sandcastles.
Quote:I don't really have much issue with 1) depending on how it is used by miners and traders. It can wreck pirating grounds completely. 2) Well that's quite obvious, isn't it? Bases shoot at me, my enemies or targets can dock there - they might even be able to see my docking messages, making docking / PVP-death an issue for me and so on. PoB's affect everyone in range of it, there's no point in being unrealistic about that and maybe it would be a good idea to show some consideration, no matter how many hours people put into their PoB or how entitled they feel to a slice of Disco space because of their endless grinding. Just sayin'.
I am sure that if you are being chased and you want to dock at the Gaian Base (seeing as this as done in relation to Fortitudine) then the miners are a) not involved in the interaction, so them seeing your docking message won't mean you are PvP dead. It needs to be the aggressor(s) and b) as you said it is about 18k between the Bases and the Docking Message is only visible up to 10k.
In no way does Fortitudine impinge on your activity within Manchester. It is 21k from the Trade Lane (I have measure it). It is sat in an Ore Field that until Lord Macrae came along most, if not all, people ignored.
Quote:I s'pose that depends on what you mean by "proper RP". To me, this is fine, I'd feel confident to wreck a base based on that, but to be honest I'd prefer it if I could just bombard the base and the roleplay with whoever shows in-game.I have no problem with your RP, in regards to Fortitudine, as you haven't posted the message and then 2 seconds later opened fired on it as you were already sat waiting until you posted it. Yet again if you want to RP whilst bombarding it, attack when the people are available to defend it and not at SMT time 5 in the morning when the population could be 20.
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