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+--- Thread: Social Survey: Why people are loosing interest to Discovery? (/showthread.php?tid=186309)
RE: Social Survey: Why people are loosing interest to Discovery? - Lythrilux - 02-17-2021
(02-17-2021, 07:36 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: People don't log - we told you why they don't log.
Big faction that drives activity in Omicrons are nomads. Nomads do NOT Rely on RP in the omicrons.
1) Lolwuts log
2) Nomads cleanse
3) everyone else logs for nomads
4) Nomads win = > they raid. Organically. With just pinging and no scheduling. They can also go ALL OUT because they have a wall of loads of HP to go through.
Without that wall when nomads now masslog - they mostly just gank steamroll all every time. It's not their fault. It's Your fault.
Only people that cared that it was a semi-conn were people that never logged, and they don't log now either
Your own HC Is telling you this and you won't listen. Because you don't play the game. There are a lot of people like you in the community, most of them barely play. They will rather see it die than witness people having fun by doing what's not seen as "quality" in their subjective PoV.
Nomads could quite easily raid Mu, Zeta, Rho, Delta... many other systems. There are ships logging in that are waiting for them to interact. In fact, funnily enough, I am in Iota right now (so I indeed do play the game) with several Core ships and have been waiting for about 10 minutes for something to login. Funnily enough, we were reacting to a bunch of Nomad ships that were in Zeta (likely grinding the warzone, y'know, doing PvE), but they all logged off as soon as we started logging in.
I think people are just lazy. The tools and means for them to interact and do things are there. It's a people problem. Back in the day, Core was driving the majority of Omicron activity but it had the leadership in place to achieve that. When that leadership burnt out, activity dropped (until the next person or people that could do the same thing came along, this case Nomads apparently, but only in Omicron Delta?). Seal clubbing mission farmers that barely speak a lick of English shouldn't be a complete substitute for proper PvP and RP interactions.
RE: Social Survey: Why people are loosing interest to Discovery? - Lemon - 02-17-2021
Lyth. You don't get it. You logged once in a year when it's not an event?
The point is if you have farmers NOBODY HAS TO SIT AROUND AND WAIT as they are PERMALOGGED. In a good system, without nebulas in far, zones and sun in the middle and long distances.
Before you screwed Omicrons you could log any time of the day in that system because you always had people permalogged.
Point is - you went completely against the development of server population, and somehow people didn't stop your madness that ruined Omicrons activity. The trend should be to concentrate activity not spread it out. You had all activity in one system. So fucking what. Farmers permalogged.
You could log core 24/7 to bully legal bully them. You could log nomads 24/7 to kill them. And then you could log core+order to kill the Nomads and each other. Who could cleanse ASAP and go all-out because of the massive swarm of ships that came their way.
Nomads, Core, Order all had farming zones overlapping and great missions with great visibility. Highly profitable Ores were close to Nomad Base. and easily intercepted.
You didn't take the server population and the nature of Omicrons into account when you made these changes because you don't play the game or listen to feedback of players that do. You killed the one place on the server besides liberty you could log 24/7 and get action. Your "russian Ivan only" is bs too. Unlike you, I logged Core. A lot. And I got my legal asshole RP and long debates in with people virtually every day.
RE: Social Survey: Why people are loosing interest to Discovery? - Felipe - 02-17-2021
I will use Darky post to comment some points, just because i know this cat and i hope he wont stab me for using him as example
(02-17-2021, 07:43 AM)darkwind Wrote: Long waiting for actions in repeated loop of monotone actions (fixed by hyper jumps)
Add there is very long beraucracy for requests that can last for weeks and months.
Disappointment in pew pew, high gap of skills between noob and aces. Double standards in morality, praising ace codex of actions, which is decreasing newbies chances even lower. (fixed by usage of caps)
Toxicity of people in power of Liberty (fixed by running from Liberty)
Constant strain on nerves, when you posses pob or leader of official faction, there is need to check for attack alerts or faction quarter online checks (fixed only by getting rid of them)
Honorably mentions to unlawful/nomad gameplay which leads to being ganked and you don't have chances to run away from them, because every advantage for running is nerfed further. Or will be even reported.
Additional mentions to nerfs of every thing you was finding as best in economy, guns or ships, making your findings or achieved things as worthless.
1- Agreed.
2- Agreed.
3- "Toxicity of people in power of" almost everywhere. Rhein Gov been a cancer for the time im around, many admins (that i used to call fagmins) also been toxic, but is interesting to notice that many permabanned people been (or are) part of admin/dev crew. I dont think we can call the result a surprise.
But we should also notice that mostly that happens because those are the ones still giving a shit to the game. I bet many call me toxic aswell, and prolly they are right, in some degree, at least.
4- Also i agree, and thats a reason why many nice people left. If you care for one of the very few things that can actually be lost/hurt in this game (pobs and factions) you will be toxic aswell, sooner or later.
Last 2 items: Are partially a consequence of devs trying to fix what they think may be the issue. Im not saying its right or wrong, but surelly is the result of how those people see the game and what they *think* is wrong with it.
If someone run and log off as soon as see they are online, whats the solution? I would say "ask to the guy that just logged off why he did that" while others would say "lets change smt so ill have his blue next time".
But the real truth is: You dont like the way the shit is happening? Step up and help to change the game in the direction you think would be better. If you wont do such, and dont even play anymore, please stop being a cancer in chats, forums and even ingame saying "were doomed, game is dead, blablabla" and complaining of everything anyone try to do
RE: Social Survey: Why people are loosing interest to Discovery? - Pennyfield - 02-17-2021
TL;DR (all the comments so forgive me for double posting yet it may show a similar mindset)
The past year was especially strange for the majority of us and this also has it's effect on things in-game. While I agree that the bureaucracy of Mod/GM/Dev related requests is there I also know that, they too, have a private life even though they have committed to dedicate some time to the community.
In the end it's just a game and yes, it is orchestrated and directed but hey, with so many community members it's always hard to find a balance which pleases everyone. And if you do, you have to make some concessions which will make things more bland and far less exciting. See of it as a restaurant chef who creates a dish. Some may think it's just right and others complain about too much salt or the lack of salt. The way each one experiences this game cannot be compared.
I myself prefer to focus on my characters and developing the story which depicts their lives. Whenever I'm online I use that in my RP and it brings joy to the game and joy to my life. But then I too get frustrated at times, it's part of the game, part of life and all one can do is to discuss this openly and without prejudice.
So as to answer your question to why people may be loosing their interest in Discovery can only say that I think it's a combination of so many things mentioned in other posts but most of all, it has a lot to do with the world we currently live in.
So perhaps we all (including me) should log more often and focus on the RP as we build and truly play our characters. Let's enjoy that for it's a game which, especially giving it's age, deserves to be enjoyed.
RE: Social Survey: Why people are loosing interest to Discovery? - RedEclipse - 02-17-2021
What's really disappointing for me is how Omicrons nowadays are developing. A slight bright part is that Zeta returnal but even resizing of asteroid belt of the sun(because of shrinked sun corona) wasn't made properly, now floating rocks are appearing till the sun model, which looks corrupt as hell. Delta rework only made Core more happy, as everything was moved in a sphere of the Nauru, even Iridium field, while the rest of the map remained more or less empty. I also thought that guard systems no longer exists, but what are developers and doing with Rho and Lost is quite fall under banner of "guard", also Theta had been grown into a monster full of zoner bases even without a single Corsair base, and now OW with their weird relationship with Corsairs came out of nowhere. Pervious version of Minor was much-much more interesting and beautiful in terms of game design and visual aspect, it fears me that developer have no taste. Anyway, thats my 2 cents, I feel really bad for Omicron rework, as its my favorite place in game.
As for major activity killer in the Omicrons was total removal of Zoner missions on the Freeport 11. That have cut most of thr activity between Zoner and Nomad players there.
RE: Social Survey: Why people are loosing interest to Discovery? - Username removed - 02-17-2021
(02-17-2021, 07:08 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: The problem is the players aren't logging in*Gasp* I wonder why...
(02-17-2021, 07:08 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Recent changes to the OmicronsSurely this has nothing to do with it. /s
Be honest Lyth, do you even play the game you develop? Whatever the Omicrons were before, people had reasons for logging in to be there. Your changes have taken away whatever reasons those people might have had.
You changed a thing because you did not like it. Different people enjoy different things, when you change something for no other reason than to better suit what you want, the consequence is that what made that place enjoyable for others, is no longer so, and so those people will go somewhere that is more enjoyable than what you created. That is why
(02-17-2021, 07:08 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: players aren't logging in
RE: Social Survey: Why people are loosing interest to Discovery? - Jeuge - 02-17-2021
'Toxicity in the community is absolutely #1.'
But sorry , we are the community.
People literally hating pirates.
Ah yes a smart man , i just log Maquis and piracy some people but yes , cry , sad thing, not happy, say ' i report you ( ok boomer) blablabla.
'everyone else logs for nomads'
Did you play the event Order vs Nomad ? no
We can say a lot more
People are just S A D ( not all )
AND Euro Truck is better , Frenchtruck stronk.
Just restart discovery. ( with Gallia )
RE: Social Survey: Why people are loosing interest to Discovery? - Shokanshi - 02-17-2021
Honestly I love the long travel times and I really dislike the system purging and travel time purging because it ruins the exploration and larger feel of the universe. The problem that has caused the most headache and more toxic faction behavior is because of the simplification the developers have done. I understand the thought process on their reasonings but it causes more problems and just repeating bandaid solutions, its gone down this rabbit hole:
1. Players have started to quit due to game age, stress, drama and low activity - SOLUTION: Cut systems.
2. Less systems means groups and commodities must be centralized. - SOLUTION: Lower commodity price to fit new travel distances.
3. Lower commodity prices causes less traders and smugglers, causing systems to become more low activity - SOLUTION: Step 1.
Add in to that the remaining players play/run factions across the entire galaxy and 'chase' after activity rather than just logging in and playing one area nowadays its just a cascading effect of the server dying.
Now to be fair, the deletions are necessary because of all the constant additions but I could of told you that when Gallia was added. Gallia was the biggest mistake this mod has ever made, we simply even back then did not have the player base to spread even further thin. I originally quit, alongside many others, around that time because I felt the game was dead. I was a member of the [RM] and we were bored as hell saying the game was dead because Rheinland had only 20ish people in the house when we were online with most people being police or miners instead of smugglers. Now if you look at Rheinland we hardly get 5 people a day in the house.
The other huge problem that others have pointed out is the bureaucracy that this server for some reason has, I understand the original purpose but we no longer are a server with 200-300 players online at a time. Just to make KAM| I had to wait a month after making my faction to then send a request that took a month to even be added to the tracker then still wait two more months to get voted on. This isn't just limited to Official Faction creation its just an easier to see and more public example of how long it takes.
If you have an OF Request or an SRP request it might be months till you hear anything in relation to your request, if you even hear back at all, as you can't see your thread and have no idea what to do other than PM team members on the forums and discord to hear either nothing or a "please wait." canned response. I've had faster times emailing Frontier Development for their game Elite Dangerous to get an event added than a mod community team, it took Frontier three weeks with back and forth communication but it took this community over a month and a half to get a singular "Oh, sorry." response.
Finding ways to support players in singular regions or giving some love to their playstyle would be the best way to fix interest and fix the losing of our limited sized playerbase.
RE: Social Survey: Why people are loosing interest to Discovery? - Lythrilux - 02-17-2021
(02-17-2021, 07:58 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: Lyth. You don't get it. You logged once in a year when it's not an event?
I was taking a jab at your silly and humorous timed point about not logging in. I'm not going to trawl back through the screenshots I have from each time I have logged in recent months, there'd be too many and to be frank that would be equally silly.
(02-17-2021, 07:58 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: The point is if you have farmers NOBODY HAS TO SIT AROUND AND WAIT as they are PERMALOGGED. In a good system, without nebulas and sun in the middle and long distances.
Did you not see the point I made where there were literally Nomad farmers logged on and Core was going to go and shoot them just now? You've completely missed that from my post. Go to Zeta, the same activity is there, just less ooRP. There are still missions in Delta but they are just obviously not as high value - that's the point.
(02-17-2021, 07:58 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: Before you screwed Omicrons you could log any time of the day in that system because you always had people permalogged.
There are people farming in Zeta all the time.
(02-17-2021, 07:58 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: Point is - you went completely against the development of server population, and somehow people didn't stop your madness that ruined Omicrons activity. The trend should be to concentrate activity not spread it out. You had all activity in one system. So ***** what. Farmers permalogged.
Extremely subjective. I had heard many opinions that the concentration of almost all sources of Omicron activity being in one place was very bad design. It had been a critque for quite a while since Durandal/Xalrok administration had lazily shoved everything in there against the concerns of others. And from what I can see reception to Zeta was fairly positive.
(02-17-2021, 07:58 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: You could log core 24/7 to bully legal bully them. You could log nomads 24/7 to kill them. And then you could log core+order to kill the Nomads and each other. Who could cleanse ASAP and go all-out because of the massive swarm of ships that came their way.
I think all these factions realise that it becomes a bit of a joke when they focus their activity around ooRP.
(02-17-2021, 07:58 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: Nomads, Core, Order all had farming zones overlapping and great missions with great visibility. Highly profitable Ores were close to Nomad Base. and easily intercepted.
The mission zones were all fairly close to NPC bases and anyone who could read a radar would easily be able to see something coming for them and run. The amount of times I would see something like a Bismark farming Nomads that would slip away by docking on an NPC base were all too frequent - if not that it'd use it's jump drive and jump out to avoid roleplay and interactions. In comparison, I can't argue Zeta is perfect, but the warzone balances that out a bit more.
(02-17-2021, 07:58 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: You didn't take the server population and the nature of Omicrons into account when you made these changes because you don't play the game or listen to feedback of players that do. You killed the one place on the server besides liberty you could log 24/7 and get action. Your "russian Ivan only" is bs too. Unlike you, I logged Core. A lot. And I got my legal asshole RP and long debates in with people virtually every day.
The critical flaw in your reasoning Lemon is to you that Omicron Activity = no-RP caps farming Nomads in weird group, ship and ID combinations when that just isn't true as evident by the recent interactions I have had in the Omicrons, and before the mission system was changed to cause the aforementioned to spike. What discouraged myself and other people from logging was exactly this: the horrendously low quality encounters that just were not worth the time investment like Thunderer describes.
I am reminded that you also used to argue that LNS farming missions in Tau-44 was good.
(02-17-2021, 08:13 PM)RedEclipse Wrote: What's really disappointing for me is how Omicrons nowadays are developing. A slight bright part is that Zeta returnal but even resizing of asteroid belt of the sun(because of shrinked sun corona) wasn't made properly, now floating rocks are appearing till the sun model, which looks corrupt as hell. Delta rework only made Core more happy, as everything was moved in a sphere of the Nauru, even Iridium field, while the rest of the map remained more or less empty. I also thought that guard systems no longer exists, but what are developers and doing with Rho and Lost is quite fall under banner of "guard", also Theta had been grown into a monster full of zoner bases even without a single Corsair base, and now OW with their weird relationship with Corsairs came out of nowhere. Pervious version of Minor was much-much more interesting and beautiful in terms of game design and visual aspect, it fears me that developer have no taste. Anyway, thats my 2 cents, I feel really bad for Omicron rework, as its my favorite place in game.
As for major activity killer in the Omicrons was total removal of Zoner missions on the Freeport 11. That have cut most of thr activity between Zoner and Nomad players there.
Pretty much all your concerns here are being addressed in one way or another. It's just a bit slow to get Omicron changes out the door. Zoner missions are/were sort of returning in some capacity albeit more balanced than before but it has just taken a while.
I decided to strike a midpoint between faithful the old Delta layout and the current system aesthetics when reworking the system (mainly because I thought people would just complain otherwise), and I think I'll just fully re-create the .87 layout in future. Though the biggest issue is that the Iridium field was moved to balance the ridiculous risk created by Nomads from before that made it unviable vs other ores - the problem is players have moved POBs to the edge of that field (something that Systems can't account for) effectively exploting the system changes to pivot their POBs into a better position and it has screwed with things a bit. I don't really know how that can change other than the GMs maybe stepping in. I would disagree that the map is empty and there are actually individually placed solars and other things located throughout the system for players to explore (well, one of them was moved out, you can blame a certain player(s) for that) - if you think the system is empty you haven't tried exploring it properly.
The truth is the Omicron 'rework' has been completely unfinished for months and individual parts of it keep getting pushed back for further patches and other bits of it are put in instead of the whole package. I wanted to phase everything out in one go but welp that just doesn't happen. It's painful because I have seen people decrying the Omicron rework but the truth is they've only seen like 30% of it. I don't want to talk too much out of line but I feel like all these problems are being blamed on me solely when I have been putting all the work but it then gets shelved in place of other things.
(02-17-2021, 08:17 PM)Ivan Norovich Wrote:(02-17-2021, 07:08 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: The problem is the players aren't logging in*Gasp* I wonder why...
(02-17-2021, 07:08 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Recent changes to the OmicronsSurely this has nothing to do with it. /s
Be honest Lyth, do you even play the game you develop? Whatever the Omicrons were before, people had reasons for logging in to be there. Your changes have taken away whatever reasons those people might have had.
You changed a thing because you did not like it. Different people enjoy different things, when you change something for no other reason than to better suit what you want, the consequence is that what made that place enjoyable for others, is no longer so, and so those people will go somewhere that is more enjoyable than what you created. That is why(02-17-2021, 07:08 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: players aren't logging in
Roku Omicron Alpha North Edge Worlds 3h58
General_bumi Omicron Alpha North Edge Worlds 3h50
Oohoowhoobhoo Omicron Alpha North Edge Worlds 18m
MNS-Viajero Omicron Beta North Edge Worlds 19m
Marcinko Omicron Delta Nomad Worlds 1h31
(\^/)Helios Omicron Delta Nomad Worlds 3m
RV-Pennybrooke Omicron Iota Nomad Worlds 45m
Vagrant.Melia Omicron Iota Nomad Worlds 37m
Kylan'Kan Omicron Zeta Nomad Worlds 1h30
Jestak|Aoi Omicron Zeta Nomad Worlds 27m
Amar'Utu Omicron Zeta Nomad Worlds 24m
Mor'Kher Omicron Zeta Nomad Worlds 23m
Greater.Light Omicron Zeta Nomad Worlds 20m
Li'in'Da Omicron Zeta Nomad Worlds 19m
Koi'shi Omicron Zeta Nomad Worlds 16m
K'Hara|Pherousa. Omicron Zeta Nomad Worlds 3m
There were also 5 Core ships including myself on this list just a moment ago.
RE: Social Survey: Why people are loosing interest to Discovery? - Sava - 02-17-2021
Disco needs a predictable and stable activity. A place where you can go and find other players to interact with without prior agreements, pinging Discord chats, etc. Old Delta with its high random activity (at least as Lemon describes it) is one such example, but to get things really going you would have to centralize activity in other regions, too.
If you log in and spend half an hour trying to find something to pirate/protect/kill/fly along with, then of course you'll get a feeling that time spent searching for interaction isn't worth the joy you get out of it.
Edit: about Zeta being as good as Delta. No, it's not, and people who enjoyed Delta complaining about it is sufficient proof, IMO. For me, it's +1 jump to get there from places where I can dock/usually keep my chars, and is dedicated almost entirely to farming, which is not what all of us have an interest in, whereas in Delta you could do other things.