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+---- Thread: Okinawa Event #2: Isehara Terraforming Platform I Sat 9 15:00 GMT (/showthread.php?tid=20104)
Okinawa Event #2: Isehara Terraforming Platform I Sat 9 15:00 GMT - Hawkwings - 05-23-2009
' Wrote:I think that the real problem here is that the GMG is getting more influence and more RP power that some houses would like to. They did what they had to do in this event, they showed up, they rallyed forces to figth in their side. If the attackers didn't made the same arrangments it's their problem.
Why don't you just come out and say it? You think the Kusari players don't like the GMG gaining RP influence.
' Wrote:Pure speculation. Delays we can handle. We saw another group of Corsairs with a member 'Emperor's Hand' in it - naturally we expected them to show up as well. They didnt.
Did you ask? Did you offer to wait until they showed up? Tolerance is a two way street.
Quote:Irrelevant, the point is no-one even BOTHERED to try and RP this tactic. See the enemy, kill the enemy.
Yes, we do actually roleplay - ask our allies, ask our enemies.
Perhaps then, next time, the Hogosha should RP the fact that the KNF is attacking Chugoku, and that the Blood Dragons ought to go defend their home? Would that have worked?
Quote:A faction with not enough active members is a more serious problem than simply not showing up for events...
I agree. Therefore, we should solve the faction activity problem first before askig the faction to participate in events.
Quote:I will throw you a bone and agree that Forum RP is a valuable component to the playing out of Okinawa Development. That being said, simply writing stories about how 'I singlehandedly blew up Isehara LULZ!' may not be effective all on its own.
Hence, cooperative storytelling. Work out a story beforehand with the other side, then write it out in forum RP.
Quote:Nor is not participating in the event, and then complaining about it afterwards even though you havent been involved in any significant way.
Do I need to participate in a one-sided slaughter to think that it is wrong?
Let's get to the root of the problem here. The GMG is in a position advantageous to any PVP activity, since they are allied to the Blood Dragons, who have quite a number of people that live solely for PVP. Perhaps not allowing the Blood Dragons to get involved would be a good measure to take?
@ Ortog and Semeagol: Numbers are an indicator of what can happen. Even-numbered fights are generally pretty even. Lopsided numbered fights are generally lopsided in results. Don't act as if this is not a consideration.
Okinawa Event #2: Isehara Terraforming Platform I Sat 9 15:00 GMT - Friday - 05-23-2009
' Wrote:Wait, Sentai got involved on the GMG side? I think if the Hogosha have evidence of the GMG working alongside the Blood Dragons, it should be forwarded to the Emperor, as I am sure Kusari will be asking very real questions about the GMG's relations with the Dragons.
Yes, just as one could ask questions about the Hogosha leading Corsair fleets through Kusari space...lets not start playing that game now eh?
Okinawa Event #2: Isehara Terraforming Platform I Sat 9 15:00 GMT - Derkylos - 05-23-2009
' Wrote:-Numbers: I am speaking for GMG| (they can still object to this on this thread) when I say that numbers don't really matter to us, the event still goes through. What I mean by this is, I am not interested in spending an hour shuffling players around until we have equal forces. These events have real consequences, showing up to the battle is one of the major tactics to winning that battle. If a side loses cause they are outnumbered than a win is still recorded to the otherside. If a side decides to cancel the event cause of no shows and the little remaining doesn't want to come and take their whooping than they forfeit and a win is recorded for the other side.
From the discussion thread. No objections were raised to this statement at the time.
Okinawa Event #2: Isehara Terraforming Platform I Sat 9 15:00 GMT - Friday - 05-23-2009
Of course not, they are only being raised now by non-faction members after the fact.
Okinawa Event #2: Isehara Terraforming Platform I Sat 9 15:00 GMT - Zelot - 05-23-2009
' Wrote:Yes, just as one could ask questions about the Hogosha leading Corsair fleets through Kusari space...lets not start playing that game now eh?
Do you have evidence of that? Hogosha ships with Corsair ships in Kusari space?
Edit: on another point, this might be a good example of why Disco has never before let in game, faction rp affect the storyline development in a significant way, people become to invested in the outcome of the fight. People become so involved, wanting their side to do well, that they do things like bring 16 ships to fight against 4. I think this is showing that it will really get in the way of goodwill OOC between opposing factions, because so much is at risk in the fight.
Okinawa Event #2: Isehara Terraforming Platform I Sat 9 15:00 GMT - ProwlerPC - 05-23-2009
Actually yeah, the KNF probably could easily pull the BD away. Be it a strike on them or what if a KNF happened to be chasing a criminal that flees into Okinawa. Two most likely things will happen, we will want to shoo the BD away as we don't want that to be seen and the BD will most likely go for their hated enemies. In fact my heart skipped a beat at the sudden realization of the BD being seen with us by the KNF and what that would turn into. Yeah we'd have to put them away, tactics ;), keeps us from hiding behind a now obvious one.
Okinawa Event #2: Isehara Terraforming Platform I Sat 9 15:00 GMT - Semeagol - 05-23-2009
' Wrote:@ Ortog and Semeagol: Numbers are an indicator of what can happen. Even-numbered fights are generally pretty even. Lopsided numbered fights are generally lopsided in results. Don't act as if this is not a consideration.
I remember playing in a server were the Ronin name was remembered has "the few but though".
@Ortog: I don't remember if I played in the same server that the Ronin did, but I heard about you. And I can tell you that I would like to have 2 or 3 like you at my side then having 10 or 15 that would question if it's fair or if it's honored. Hope to see you in space, sir!!!
Okinawa Event #2: Isehara Terraforming Platform I Sat 9 15:00 GMT - SimonBlack - 05-23-2009
' Wrote:Wait, Sentai got involved on the GMG side? I think if the Hogosha have evidence of the GMG working alongside the Blood Dragons, it should be forwarded to the Emperor, as I am sure Kusari will be asking very real questions about the GMG's relations with the Dragons.
Yes, but they are dead. The dead do not spread messages now do they? My GMG has killed GC to help KNF before. Totally got away with it:D
Fact is - Hogosha + OPG have decided to attack, the odds were not forced on them. GMG quite frankly had no idea of how many will show up and brought in full force. I agree, they could have told some of the groups like Dragons or Ronin to stay out, but that would change little, indeed. It is not GMG's fault that so little of opposition showed up. I feel a little bit sorry for Hogosha, as I do not like to hang up on my enemies, even if it makes me loose the battle, but let us not be biased - the odds are no one's fault - it is the fault of time, timezones and matter. ;)
Okinawa Event #2: Isehara Terraforming Platform I Sat 9 15:00 GMT - Ironfoot - 05-23-2009
' Wrote:Pardon me, Tomodachi, but I was one of the two Freelancers (Jun Okazaki, the other was JakeSG, Gabe Scalene) you refer to and the person that shot you down. I became involved solely because I was personally contacted by a GMG representative that informed me that they were expecting a massive Corsair assault and specifically asked me for assistance in exchange for a very generous salary. Naturally, I accepted, and took Jake along with me, as we were busily cleaning up Liberty's Xeno presence together at the time. My presence during this event was wholly warranted and not at all divorced from roleplay, as you seem to suggest.
Yeah, it's unfortunate that so many foes of the OPG and Hogosha made an appearance to bash your heads in, and yeah, I feel somewhat guilty about gunning down what, in effect, became half your force; though this may be an accepted tactic elsewhere, it's never been with me. Next time, I assume a more careful estimate of player presence on each side of an event will be made.
I was not getting at you and I am sorry if you feel I was, but the factions that invited you to join.
Okinawa Event #2: Isehara Terraforming Platform I Sat 9 15:00 GMT - RockCrystal - 05-24-2009
Wow. I go in to a 4 hour shift at work and come home to find a 3 page flame war about the event I participated in this morning. That... that's just great.:(
From what I can tell, the core issue seems to be: How throughly do we want to play pretend here? We have some people here saying 'This is a game, games are supposed to have some semblence of fair play.' Then we have other people coming in and saying 'Nope, that's OORP, this is a WAR and we need to win no matter what'.
Quite frankly, neither of these positions really has the moral high ground. Let me explain what I mean.
To the '16vs4 OMG' people: This IS a game. Games need rules. This one had them. We stuck too them, perhaps a bit too much to the letter, and this is what resulted.
To the 'That's OORP, This is WAR' crowd: This is a GAME. We can play dress-up with our digital penis spaceships as much as we want, but at the end of the day, what matters is having fun, and more importantly, not having it at the expense of someone else's fun.
To everyone: This is a new thing that we're trying here. When new things are tried, mistakes are often made, and lessons are often learned from them.
Here is what I think needs to happen:
1. Everyone needs to take a step back from this. Spend at least 24 hours thinking about and doing something else.
2. With that fresh perspective, talk about the rules we used, and whether they need to be added to, taken away, or changed in any way. Two possible changes coming to my mind, just off the bat: Either institute new rules that permit some OORP side-shuffling, like calling those corsairs in from Theta or sending those dragons out to Chugoku, or changing the 16v4 gangbang into a gruling endurance contest, wherein a series of 1v1 battles take place, whichever side runs out of ships first loses.
3. ...we had a lot of 'sore winners' on our side. I myself made some injudicious comments over system chat, to the effect of 'Let's invite the Junkers up here to clean up the trash the Hogosha left' Those remarks were completely innapropriate, and I apologize for them. I would like to see similar apologies made for remarks made both after the battle and here on this thread. *bites tongue to keep from mentioning any specific remarks*
I hope my unsolicited remarks and suggestions are of some small help.