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+--- Thread: To discovery (/showthread.php?tid=46842)
To discovery - Nicholas Jurgen - 09-14-2010
' Wrote:I can RP god if I wanted it, would I be a troll or, would I be trying to hurt someone by doing it? The answer is no.
It's not that they are RPing terrorist, suicide bombers, cannibals, ghosts, furries (well, hard one:P), god, homer simpson, buggbunny (furry again). It's the other players saying "You can't do that", and even more, it's the other players saying "They play that because they try to piss everybody off, they do that because they hate Iraq/USA/japan/Germany"
Play the Ku Klux Klan if you want it, play it well. That you want to play that is not the problem, is people (like you) that are going to think "hey, they hate black people" or "hey, they are real racists"... or funnier "they hate the ku klux klan" I wonder who doesn't.
Same goes for religion, play whatever you want, and let's hope people don't start saying you are against Christ, allah, buda or Krusty the clown.
The problem here is not the people playing a character, is the people thinking that the guy playing that character does it because of real hatred. C'mon...
We play characters because we like them, not to piss off people, and those who play a character to piss off people... I think they are not in this community for the right reasons.
If anyone is feeling offended by someone else, there are many ways to approach to the problem without falling into aggresions.
There are three options when a problem arrise:
a_ The worst, ignore it, being careless, not helping, doing nothing.
b_ The wrongful (if it's not a word, my bad), yelling, NO U contests, hate.
c_ The not so wrongful, discussing about it with maturity, talking, even... laughing.
Anyway, I'm off.
PS: Heh, except for those with english as first language... the rest of us are racists... we learned a new language to make sure everyone understand our insults.
You missed the entire point. Did you even read what I wrote? Do you ever read in context or just take things out of context to make a point? It is not about racism. It is about being insensitve to others. I never said they were racists either like you said in your post. But for you and anyone else who thinks for a minute what these people are doing is good....you are crazy. You are justifying their actions. In America we have free speech, but you know what, you cannot yell 'fire' in a crowded theater if there is not a fire. On this server there are rules as to what characters can be played or said.
I guess this is not one of them and people LIKE YOU justify others insensitivity.
I also remember people playing these types of characters about a year ago. Well I guess we never learn.
To discovery - Jihadjoe - 09-14-2010
' Wrote:I expect each and every one of you is intelligent enough to understand what I'm saying. Basically, whatever your predjudice, think hard about it, recognise it, and then don't bring it to discovery.
... *sigh* Oh well...
To discovery - Kazinsal - 09-14-2010
' Wrote:You missed the entire point. Did you even read what I wrote? Do you ever read in context or just take things out of context to make a point? It is not about racism. It is about being insensitve to others. I never said they were racists either like you said in your post. But for you and anyone else who thinks for a minute what these people are doing is good....you are crazy. You are justifying their actions. In America we have free speech, but you know what, you cannot yell 'fire' in a crowded theater if there is not a fire. On this server there are rules as to what characters can be played or said.Whoa whoa whoa. Eeeeaasssyyyyyy buddddyyyyyyy.
I guess this is not one of them and people LIKE YOU justify others insensitivity.
I also remember people playing these types of characters about a year ago. Well I guess we never learn.
I believe the point of this thread is to be nice, not to flame people who don't have the same opinion as you.
This goes for everyone else here who's decided to troll/flame in this thread. You should be ashamed.
--Troy
PS: inb4whiteknightlol
To discovery - sovereign - 09-14-2010
On a conscious level, everyone here seems to instinctively agree "racism = bad". You'd probably say the same about murder, oppression, or, say, piracy? These are all bad things, no question. They're all real things, also no question.
Nobody's going to complain if your FL character has committed murder or piracy, or if they're supporting an oppressive regime, though. It's not like we support it, right?
Now, to the point. Joe said that racism has no place in FL. I would like to contest that particular wording; rather, I would claim that real-world ethnicity has no place in Freelancer.
For example; my Das Wilde character, Hektor Schneider, is of the strong opinion that Corsairs are dull-witted brutes incapable of higher reasoning, and that Outcasts are prideful and vain. He'll still work with Outcasts, due to their occasional connections with the Nomads, but that won't stop him from judging anyone who looks descended from the sleeper ship Hispania (words chosen carefully there) as inferior. Now that I stop and think about it, one of my characters refers to Corsairs almost the same way that KKK members might have referred to blacks in the 1950s. He is, quite clearly, racist.
This is fine.
Racism is a real thing, just like murder and oppression. This sucks. Glorifying it is bad. Portraying it, however, is not; so long as you are careful. I have gone to great lengths to make sure that anyone who interacts with Hektor is sure that he is a complete monster. His backstory (much more planned than written >.>) may explain his ways, but it does not justify them. You are supposed to hate this character and want to kill him.
Now, I just said that portraying this sort of stuff is okay; this bears some clarification. Portraying "evil" actions and emotions from the real world is acceptable (and dare I say healthy for the server), but portraying evil people from the real world is not. There are still those alive who suffered grievously at the hands of the Nazis, and plenty who have lost friends or family to terrorists who twist words of compassion into weapons of hatred. While I would not view it as unconscionable to discuss racism or twisted "fundamentalism" (always so far from the fundamentals of religion to make the irony almost unbearably brutal), I would not so casually remind such veterans or those mourning of the wickedness and inexcusable evil that had so injured them, much less attach the word "acceptable" to a portrayal of the very fiends responsible.
Technically speaking, it might be possible to "import" such people as the Nazis or Al Qaeda. Two very strong obstacles stand in the way; first, FL is not RL. There are no Germans, and there are no Arabs. There are Rheinlanders and men of the Coalition, but that is different more than in name. The second, and more important obstacle is this; they must not be justified. There is no justification for mass murder and torture of that scale, nor for that depth of hatred and perversion of the cause of freedom. Explanation, yes; justification, no. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Freelancer characters that do horrible things; but they are nothing less than horrible things. These actions must be portrayed as such, and if portraying real world people who have done horrible things, it is absolutely crucial that they not be portrayed as anything less than people who do horrible things. Scary and badass is alright; cool and justified is not.
That's all I have to say for now. I also notice that I went way off of where I originally intended to go. Eh. Sleeptime.
To discovery - Ortog - 09-14-2010
I agree completely with Joe's statement. Well done Sir!
To discovery - Jihadjoe - 09-14-2010
' Wrote:Now, to the point. Joe said that racism has no place in FL.
I said it has no place in our community. I didn't say it had no place in our roleplay. The xenos are xenophobic after all. It's the nature of the group. Read the first post again please Sov.
To discovery - Nicholas Jurgen - 09-14-2010
' Wrote:Whoa whoa whoa. Eeeeaasssyyyyyy buddddyyyyyyy.
I believe the point of this thread is to be nice, not to flame people who don't have the same opinion as you.
This goes for everyone else here who's decided to troll/flame in this thread. You should be ashamed.
--Troy
PS: inb4whiteknightlol
Did you read Casero's post accusing me? If I flamed I apologize. However, he fired the first round.
To discovery - n00bl3t - 09-14-2010
' Wrote:Whoa whoa whoa. Eeeeaasssyyyyyy buddddyyyyyyy.
I believe the point of this thread is to be nice, not to flame people who don't have the same opinion as you.
This goes for everyone else here who's decided to troll/flame in this thread. You should be ashamed.
--Troy
PS: inb4whiteknightlol
' Wrote:- A middle eastern themed group is instantly deemed to be middle eastern islamic extremists. Despite not making any reference to islam in their RP.
Well, this example opened up the floodgates.
The whole thing with the [A] does not really make sense, and the only reason it was done, was so they could avoid RP repercussions by taking a factionalised ID.
Their RP is non-existent. ("Lol we're Arabs who blow up Zoners." Does this make the Zoners Jewish based in their RP? The only reason I can see really.)
And yes, they are Arabs, based on their greeting. (In before you are racist and judging them on wearing turbans and their names.)
So, if JihadJoe, as a forum member, based on his first post and how he was posting, is going to stamp his "yeah, that's fine" on it, he should be prepared to take the heat that comes with it.
To discovery - Jihadjoe - 09-14-2010
Well n00bl3t, I made no comment on the quality of the RP, nor did I state whether or not I supported the group's actions. I did however state a fact which arose from the situation, which is that they created a middle eastern themed group and attacked zoners, then, without them mentioning any kind of god in their RP, were labeled out of roleplay as playing islamic extremists.
That shows that those who made that assumption were jumping to a possibly entirely inaccurate conclusion based on their pre-formed predjudices surrounding middle eastern culture.
I won't make any further comment regarding that in this thread.
To discovery - Tupacalypse - 09-14-2010
' Wrote:Well, this example opened up the floodgates.
The whole thing with the [A] does not really make sense, and the only reason it was done, was so they could avoid RP repercussions by taking a factionalised ID.
They're Corsairs so try again dude. They shoot Zoners.. they can't land on Zoner bases... oh look RP consequences. If your going to troll people at least get your facts straight Mudd.