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+--- Thread: There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand.... (/showthread.php?tid=48567)
There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand.... - DarthBindo - 10-17-2010
@ Cannon. What about traders being in EXTREMELY high risk areas.
Say, oh.....Some fool house corporation going through Omicron Gamma, or delta, to deliver to Order or BHG or Zoners.
As a corsair, is demanding he destroy all his cargo unreasonable?
There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand.... - Arashi - 10-17-2010
I'm not for or against this, piracy has it's place.. but you guys need to think about all the costs involved too.
***Sorry this is gonna be long***
The Miner / Ore Transporter
1) Mining:
a) Time and effort involved (anywhere from 10 - 30 minutes a transport *various sizes*)
b) If you transport it yourself (with your own group), your cost is only A, + the time and effort to travel to AND from the sell point. (You transports have to return to do it again, but you can usually find a return cargo of SOME profit)
c) Many miners (that aren't solo) now just mine ore to sell to others. They charge anywhere from 25 - 45% of the max value of the ore.
Example: Niobium Ore, sells for around 10,500 per ore. Company will fill you transport with ore for 4,000 per ore (about 38% of max value). So if it's a BWT: 3,600 cargo that's 14,400,000 credits.
2) Transporting ore to sale destination
a) Time and effort involved. (round trip if you plan to get more ore).
b) As in 1b above, if you transport it youself, so far it's only cost you 1a, and 2a. (Time and effort).
c) If you are just a trader coming to buy ore. Then you are paying to have your cargo filled. Most mine for you to collect, only some of the miners store it for sale. So again, it still takes you time to collect a full load, at which point you're paying the miners for the ore you collect.
Example: BWT waits 20 mins to get a full load of ore, and pays 14,400,000 credits for it. They can sell the ore in NB for 10,500 per ore, or 37,800,000 total. Subtract the purchase cost and they have a profit of: 23,400,000 credits.
So depending on how you participate and what you do, you can make anywhere from:
Miner only: 15mil or so + 10 to 30 minutes of work.
Transport Only: 30 - 60 minutes of waiting/travel + credits
30 - 35mil or so + 10 to 30 mins of waiting, and another 30 or so minutes of travel, one way (not counting interruptions).
Mine and transport: 40 to 90 minutes of work and travel + credits
53mil or so, + 10 - 30 minutes of work, and another 30 or so minutes of travel, with another 30 or so minutes to get your transports back to your mining area.
SO as you can see, mining isn't just credits, it takes time and effort, no matter how you look at it. With the easiest being just mining, followed by transporting ore, and the hardest doing both yourself.
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The Pirate:
I have never pirated, so I don't know all the details, so if I get something wrong, please correct me.
1) Starting your day:
a) you have to fly around, or find a spot where you're likely to encounter a Transport (whether it has a valuable cargo or not you won't know until you encounter it)
b) You then have to determine if it's worth pirating. (empty cargo might be worth pirating, you always get the satisfaction of blowing them up if they refuse)
c) Now you can do 1 of 2 things: RP out the act of pirating the transport (this assumes the transport RP's in return), or just do like some pirates. Credits/Cargo or die.
2) What next?
a) You just successfully pirated a ship and got credits, so now you move on to find your next victim and repeat #1 above.
b) You just successfully pirated a ship and got a full cargo (or blew it up for cargo). Now you have to go back to whatever base you have, or find someone to sell your cargo to, if you can't take it yourself.
c) You unsuccessfully, for whatever reason, did not pirate the ship, and now must start at #1 above again.
End of your day:
You count up your credits/cargo, subtract out the time you spent waiting/stalking. cost of ordnance used, and other expenses. Then prepare to do it all over again.
As a pirate you do a lot of waiting more than likely for a suitable target.
You also use up ordnance, and other expenses that you incur.
You are the one primarily in charge of the RP, you have the guns, you control the situation (unless help arrives for your target), it's up to you to open up the RP.
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Ok, so now between those 2, there is a lot of time and effort involved. The pirates wait a lot, or fly around a lot. The miners stay in one spot and shoot lots, and the transports fly to and from destinations.
Pirates have it easier in some cases as their targets have set locations to mine, or paths/routes to follow to destinations. There are some variances, but the start and end points are always the same.
The Miners/Transports have advantages in that they know where they are, can hire escorts/defenders, and can alter the routes they take (long way instead of short way).
Pirating is dangerous, it's an unlawful act. Therefore they are gonna be more greedy, cutthroat, and underhanded by nature.
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So now, taking all of that into account. Saying miners have it easy, and make to many credits is dumb, just like saying miners shouldn't make more money than traders is dumb. There are more places that a miner can loose credits, than for traders. If you break it down, traders and miners make the same amount when they move the ore, and take the same chances. The difference is that miners also take a big risk (or have to pay for protection) while they are actually MINING.
The pirates take the risk in attacking miners, as many miners are setup to also be combatants (unless they are solo, in a hegemon). Or the miners have help nearby. It's still dangerous..
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So, think about all this when you pirate, or you mine, or you transport goods. It's a game, how would you feel in the other persons shoes/position?
Wait, dumb question, it's human nature to lie to oneself, and say "I'd be fine with it" because it's also human nature to feel good when you win, even if it's stepping on someone else to do so.
So PLEASE PLEASE think. It's a game, fairplay... try to put yourself in the other players shoes and think about what they had/have to put into it to play what they play, before you go interact with them. Also remember, the people you meet aren't living next door to you, and may not have as uber PC with uber connection, and give them time to respond. Sure they might be calling for help. Or they could just be a slow typer. If help arrives for them, keep them in mind and next time take that into account. Don't assume they are always calling for help cause it takes then 15 seconds to respond to you instead of 5 seconds.
There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand.... - dodike - 10-17-2010
' Wrote:Life is not fair either
Suck it up and fly a bomber or less
' Wrote:Less Q_Q moar PewPew. It's simple to evade them if you fly snubcraft, don't whine about something, just get better at dodging those things. Simply L2P .
' Wrote:Grrrr
There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand.... - schlurbi - 10-17-2010
Quote:The Pirate:If pirating would be that easy :rolleyes:
I have never pirated, so I don't know all the details, so if I get something wrong, please correct me.
1) Starting your day:
a) you have to fly around, or find a spot where you're likely to encounter a Transport (whether it has a valuable cargo or not you won't know until you encounter it)
b) You then have to determine if it's worth pirating. (empty cargo might be worth pirating, you always get the satisfaction of blowing them up if they refuse)
c) Now you can do 1 of 2 things: RP out the act of pirating the transport (this assumes the transport RP's in return), or just do like some pirates. Credits/Cargo or die.
2) What next?
a) You just successfully pirated a ship and got credits, so now you move on to find your next victim and repeat #1 above.
b) You just successfully pirated a ship and got a full cargo (or blew it up for cargo). Now you have to go back to whatever base you have, or find someone to sell your cargo to, if you can't take it yourself.
c) You unsuccessfully, for whatever reason, did not pirate the ship, and now must start at #1 above again.
End of your day:
You count up your credits/cargo, subtract out the time you spent waiting/stalking. cost of ordnance used, and other expenses. Then prepare to do it all over again.
As a pirate you do a lot of waiting more than likely for a suitable target.
You also use up ordnance, and other expenses that you incur.
You are the one primarily in charge of the RP, you have the guns, you control the situation (unless help arrives for your target), it's up to you to open up the RP.
You'll have to deal with: *Inhales*
Traders not roleplaying.
Traders using F1
Traders just shooting at you before you can even say something
Traders running off until they explode because of the System Border
Capital Ship swarms hunting down your Fighter/Bomber/Gunboat/Transport
Other Cops using something else than a Gunboat or Cruiser or Battleship
Mercenaries
Bounty Hunters
Freelancers
Other Criminals
Other Idiots
*Exhales*
I don't see a Reason why there should be a maximum Amount that Pirates could demand from a Trader. Even newer People know how much a Trader is paying for his Freight and Live and Ship and Crew.
I'd rather see the Rule that Traders can re-enter the System after being blown up removed than seeing another Rule for Pirates.
There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand.... - dodike - 10-17-2010
' Wrote:I'd rather see the Rule that Traders can re-enter the System after being blown up removed than seeing another Rule for Pirates.
Why would you cut off the hand that feeds you?
There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand.... - schlurbi - 10-17-2010
I'm not cutting off a feeding Hand because that Hand didn't feed me before and surely isn't gonna do so. If a Trader refuses to pay and gets blown up, re-enters the System he either flies through the System not using the Trade Lanes or I'll catch him again and to 95%, they get blown up again because they refuse to pay again.
It also makes more Sense. There are more than just one Trade Route for every NPC Faction (except Planetform). Same as a Miner, in my Opinion they shouldn't be allowed to come back into that System. It's probably more effective than just losing the Cargo and Time.
There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand.... - dodike - 10-17-2010
' Wrote:I'm not cutting off a feeding Hand because that Hand didn't feed me before and surely isn't gonna do so.
Call for a transport?
There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand.... - schlurbi - 10-17-2010
Mostly there is no Transport avaible, unless you fly one.
There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand.... - Charcoal - 10-17-2010
Here's an idea (and its not new either): BAN CREDIT PIRACY
make pirates have to bring transports with them to haul away the cargo.
When pirates tell me to "Get escorts", I can then tell them to "Get transports"
There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand.... - dodike - 10-17-2010
' Wrote:When pirates tell me to "Get escorts", I can then tell them to "Get transports"
Let me guess
a lawyer?