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+--- Thread: Tired of the confusion! (/showthread.php?tid=58502)
Tired of the confusion! - Negatar - 04-18-2011
You cannot say I WILLFULLY ignored the rules Hielor. I also spent more than five minutes consulting the wiki as far as ship, ID stips, tech chart info, legal/illegal trade goods, etc. I just didnt see any APPARENT or EASY displayed links to the master rules rules for factions as you have now pinted out to me. But dont say I ASKED to give myself a hard time willingly. I brought all of this up to hopefully get someone to help OTHERS by revealing that which is not immediately obvious to those that consult the wiki and tech chart.
Confusion would have been avoided and can be if the info were to be found IN GAME. I also know for certain it would lead to better RP and less anger/confusion and therefore less angru threads and folks filing sanction reports! :rtfm:
Tired of the confusion! - VoluptaBox - 04-18-2011
' Wrote:Am i Wrong now? Both those ships are sold at junker bases. So if junkers are "unlawful" instead of "quasi lawful" like ID,and Junker discription describes them. Then the Zoner GB should also be an unlawful ship,as it is also sold on Junker bases. IE. "unlawful" faction. That! is what i am trying to say. Also Border world ships are sold on "unlawful" bases,infact i know of no lawful base that sell's a sabre.
So my point is why is one ship KOS,and not others? Just because info card is as old as crap? Or because "pirate" is in the name? NO! they should be open to all,and be judged by ID/Cargo,or group flying it.
There is a ton of other ship's used by unlawful's. Should they also be put on KOS list in house space? All i am saying.
Done now. Continue hating me,and trolling me. It just makes me push harder.
Basically, what Vito said. Also, thsere are not server rules, are house laws. Your opinion on this doesn't matter...nor does mine, but still.
Personally, I like that the Ptrans is outlawed. And I got one myself, a Mando one. Mandos are lawfuls in Liberty, but I never take the Ptrans there nonetheless. It's one of the perks that comes with awesome firepower and cargo space.
Tired of the confusion! - Hielor - 04-18-2011
' Wrote:You cannot say I WILLFULLY ignored the rules Hielor. I also spent more than five minutes consulting the wiki as far as ship, ID stips, tech chart info, legal/illegal trade goods, etc. I just didnt see any APPARENT or EASY displayed links to the master rules rules for factions as you have now pinted out to me. But dont say I ASKED to give myself a hard time willingly. I brought all of this up to hopefully get someone to help OTHERS by revealing that which is not immediately obvious to those that consult the wiki and tech chart.http://discoveryfl.com/wiki/index.php/Commodities has the following line right at the top of the "annotations":
Quote:See The Laws of Sirius for more detailed explanations.
Quote:Confusion would have been avoided and can be if the info were to be found IN GAME. I also know for certain it would lead to better RP and less anger/confusion and therefore less angru threads and folks filing sanction reports! :rtfm:I've already explained why it's infeasible to have this in-game, multiple times.
Short version:
- Too many added commodities
- Not dynamic enough
Tired of the confusion! - McNeo - 04-18-2011
' Wrote:Personally, I like that the Ptrans is outlawed. And I got one myself, a Mando one. Mandos are lawfuls in Liberty, but I never take the Ptrans there nonetheless. It's one of the perks that comes with awesome firepower and cargo space.
This is why it's outlawed in Liberty. Lots of guns, high cargo space, and a lovely skull decal denoting that you should hug it with open arms, invite the occupants over for tea and make a generous donation to Save The Children.
Sirius is not your neo-liberal contemporary society where people "may not agree what it is you say, but will defend your right to say it". People do not care, space is dangerous, and the laws associated with space travel are correspondingly draconian and restrictive. Like it or lump it, I'm afraid.
Plus, the gameplay does not facilitate laws as comprehensive as we know them today. They're based on the laws of probability, rather than absolutes. If you have a Pirate Transport, you are very likely to have an intention to pirate and/or smuggle, even if you're not caught doing either on the spot. As for those, such as the MM ones around, it is applied to them to make sure that people to not get jealous about exceptions, but more importantly, the list of exceptions doesn't get unweildy. A list cannot get uncontrollably long if it simply does not exist.
Individuals cannot be arrested quickly and effectively, either, and often feel free to come back and shove the fact that they've lost nothing in the face of the navy when they are caught. And it's true, you've lost nothing in terms of credits. So instead, you've lost your liberty. Ironic, given that this particular one is a Liberty law, but there we go.
Moaning about it wont change anything, and if I were still the person in charge of what happened to it, your ridiculous statements (Ryoken and friends) would simply vindicate my stance on the issue. You're bitchin' because you've lost the freedom to deceive those who uphold the law. You want to feel high and mighty "Haha, I might be doing something, but you can't prove it so you've got to let me go! How do you like that, you stupid copper?!" I, for one, am glad you lot have lost the ability to go around on your merry way so easily.
This isn't the real world, where the means to commit a crime is legal but the crime itself is illegal (Torrent programs, torrenting movies to name an example). No no, this is space, where if you even look slightly suspicious, say a word out of turn, you get your ship ripped out from under you and the report the officer files says it was because you "looked funny".
Tired of the confusion! - Negatar - 04-19-2011
Hielor - aye man...your link doesnt save me or a newbie from buying the Pirate transport not knowing the rules against it. One again - you fail in your argument...sad...:nono:
Tired of the confusion! - Stuart.croll - 04-19-2011
' Wrote:I am so very tired of flying around and having everyone stop me citing rules laws, illegal commodities, illegal ship usage in their systems, etc!
Most players consult the WIKI (because its all in one spot) and we go from there. Today I found out super alloy is illegal to be sold in Rhainland. Apparently illegal only for junkers to sell it. How would i have known this? The WIKI says its legal!
My ship apparently is the wrong ship - I use a pirate transport - what am I suppossed to use as a junker trader? Its the largest ship allowed according to the junker ID (specs found in wiki) and the ship is sold in the junker guard system - yet its wrong for me to fly?
I always consult the mighty matrix regarding tech use (its all in one place) and im told that doesnt apply in Rheinland? How the heck am I to know this???
I am accosted by some Bretonian customes guy who cites all the laws to me as well. Wants ten million from me for cargo worth 400k? Yes - that makes ZERO sense!!
The guys in Rheinland always cite their laws and cite different charges.
SO - I HAVE COMPLAINED AND HERE IS MY SOLUTION - PURCHASEABLE LICENSES THAT CLEARLY STATE LEGAL/ILLEGAL CRUD FOR EACH HOUSE.
You have my deepest sympathy.
Legal/illegal commodities/weapons/ships/etc etc. And list it ALL DOWN so these wanna be freelancers (acting as cops/military) and noobies can get it right and quit making stuff up.
THEN - as a junker who is trying to be LAWFUL - I can comply without getting harassed at every jump gate and have all of his darn time WASTED!!!
PIRATES move way faster than these LAWFUL rule citing players!! Pirates are also WAY More consistent!!
SO is this doable - the heads of each faction make up the verbage on a license and we take it from there and make it purchaseable for those other non corporate groups to trade and be left in peace and allowed to not break any rules!! I am trying SO DARN HARD not to smuggle/pirate/etc - and I am harassed WAY Too often!!
I love that when you start the game you get those commodities that spell the rules out for noobies - I know this can be done again with new info - people make new commodities all the darn time and I read about them on these forums. Lets get the rules out to where we can all see them - on licenses and not held on some database that we cant see in game - a commodity where the rules are spelled out so there is no confusion - heck with buying the commodities have it also listed there (illegal/legal for these groups - etc etc and legal/illegal in these houses/factions etc) lets get FULL disclosure IN GAME!!! :rtfm:
Tired of the confusion! - Hielor - 04-19-2011
' Wrote:Hielor - aye man...your link doesnt save me or a newbie from buying the Pirate transport not knowing the rules against it. One again - you fail in your argument...sad...:nono:Uh, what?
Why is it the responsibility of the rest of us to prevent you from breaking the laws?
You've asked for easy links to the laws. I pointed out that all the laws you need to know are in the stickied thread in the communication channel. You said that it was too hard to look in the communication channel, and that you wanted to have a link from the wiki to the laws. I pointed out that there IS a link from the wiki to the laws. Everything you've asked for already exists (with the exception of in-game commodities that you would probably just sell and not read anyway).
The laws are easily accessible to anyone who cares to look. Clearly, you did not care to look, and as such obviously didn't care if you were breaking the laws or not. As a result, you got caught breaking the law, since you didn't bother looking up if your activities were legal or not, and now you're complaining.
I stand by my earlier statement. If someone doesn't spend five minutes looking up whether the activity they're about to do is illegal when it has such an obvious name as pirate transport, they deserve every problem they run into.
@Silmarillion: Good job quoting the original post, adding nothing to the conversation, and failing to read the existing seven pages of the thread.
Tired of the confusion! - ryoken - 04-19-2011
Well McNeo i do sit infront of your navy types with many of my junkers,and laugh at them. At last count my junkers have a total of $240mil in unpaid fines on their heads. Guess what. None of these almighty Navy,or Police are ever smart enough to look in wanted posts. Same reason alot do not know of the Pirate trans/train laws. They are not in an easy to look up place. I have even told your almighty lawfuls to look me up while i wait,and they still do not find my ship names. they all yell "i can't be bothered,there are to many outdated posts" or "I can't find one up to date" and so on.
So all i been saying here,and I believe is reason for this topic was THE LAWFULS NEED A PROPER PLACE TO POST THEIR RP BS!!!
Now i said my bit. So have fun,gank,die,pirate,trade,and make up new laws no one can find at will. Ba-Bye.
Tired of the confusion! - Hielor - 04-19-2011
' Wrote:Well McNeo i do sit infront of your navy types with many of my junkers,and laugh at them. At last count my junkers have a total of $240mil in unpaid fines on their heads. Guess what. None of these almighty Navy,or Police are ever smart enough to look in wanted posts. Same reason alot do not know of the Pirate trans/train laws. They are not in an easy to look up place. I have even told your almighty lawfuls to look me up while i wait,and they still do not find my ship names. they all yell "i can't be bothered,there are to many outdated posts" or "I can't find one up to date" and so on.Congratulations, you've found stupid people playing lawful characters.
So all i been saying here,and I believe is reason for this topic was THE LAWFULS NEED A PROPER PLACE TO POST THEIR RP BS!!!
Now i said my bit. So have fun,gank,die,pirate,trade,and make up new laws no one can find at will. Ba-Bye.
Should I now post anecdotes of stupid people playing unlawful characters and use them as evidence to support my claims?
Tired of the confusion! - Daedric - 04-19-2011
The laws are in a perfectly accessible place. If you can't be arsed to give them a read then that is your own fault.
Those noobs who break the laws because they didn't know about them aren't messing up, they are participating in role play. They merely need to adjust themselves after they are made aware of them if they so choose.
So what, you lost some credits because you have to change ships to be legal. That was your choice, you are absolutely free to keep that pirate transport and keep doing what you do.