+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Rules & Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Rules (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Ending the Capship Issue(and more) (/showthread.php?tid=9215)
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Akumabito - 06-09-2008
' Wrote:Whether you like the idea or not, the fact is that capital ships are being restricted by official factions, as it's not against server rules to do so
Nor is it against the server rules to ignore the factions if you are an indie.
It is against server rules for non rp pvp, as when an faction kills an indie that has a proper ship and ID that is friendly to that faction, but we all know that rule won't be enforced and that people get away with a lot here that is against the rules.
By the way, no player faction owns rochester base.
' Wrote:As for the last part, when 6 BSs jump a VHF, excuse me, that is Cap whoring, period.
OK, show me the screenie. Then show me all the screenies of the hundreds of oorp issues that everyone keeps saying happen but that no one has screenies for.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - song - 06-09-2008
Quote:for someone who actually really played all by the rules. - those "hidden" roleplay ... lets call them... "agreements" can be fatal. i do know that this is not the intention of the roleplay ruleset - and they are installed in the very best interest to actually improve the server. - and even if they do help against many, they hurt the few that "should" not be hurt by this - cause the factions simply cannot review all the cases with as much care as is appropriate at least / or in these terms respectful towards the other member.
so, those people are victims of a general purge. - bit like knowing there are a lot of criminals in a place, and a few lawfuls. - and to be sure, we just imprison everyone .... to be sure. the problem might be solved, but the methods are unjust.
Jinx should be named "official server Yoda"--once more she has hit the nail on the head--and once more I want to attempt to drive a point. Particularly I want to point to one thing she said:
Quote:the factions simply cannot review all the cases with as much care as is appropriate at least / or in these terms respectful towards the other member.
"Simply cannot review" is incorrect--they must review. They have no right to assume bad rp simply because of the ship flown and must really be sure of it to act as if it is true (with a very good rp rationale).
Secondly, and the bigger problem..."respectful towards the other member".
Being suspicious of rp and crafting your faction rp as an excuse to kill them doesn't free you from an obligation to be respectful to the person you are acting against--especially when you are excaberating a problem that might actually not be their fault or issue at all.
Respect and stop "assuming".
I said before a Mon'star would not appear with a new player because of prevailing attitudes. I write a good story about how I'm a homicidal killer and then go buy a Corsair Dreadnaught and go on a rampage--what do you think will happen?
Give people a little room to breath here and help their play not constantly combat it and criticize it.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - globalplayer-svk - 06-09-2008
some time ago, one of my chars was rogue tagged pirate in liberty. in fighter. and you know akuma why i delete it? because it was not funyn when i was hunted from mannhatan to texas hole by 1 battleship,2 battlecruisers,2 gb,and some fighters. that all hunted one little tiny fighter...
come to gamma akuma, make independent char in fighter, or faction char, and watch it. when you start count how many times you see character1: character2 PvP? or something like that, you will never end...
and my chars are home in gamma, but for them is not funny to see everyday 10+ capships near crete. corsairs dont have enought resources to build all them and i am not talking about fuel for that ships. (in rp...)
and akuma, this thread, and similar threads was not maked to ban indies in cap ships. but to force them to have roleplay behind them, and roleplay the ships... when you are in your GC you are roleplaying it, or just flying and shooting everything red? you answer, that you are roleplaying it(i saw you many times....) and when you can roleplay it, when others can roleplay their ships, why some people need to have big ships to fly and kill everything and not roleplay them ?
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Akumabito - 06-09-2008
' Wrote:some time ago, one of my chars was rogue tagged pirate in liberty. in fighter. and you know akuma why i delete it? because it was not funyn when i was hunted from mannhatan to texas hole by 1 battleship,2 battlecruisers,2 gb,and some fighters. that all hunted one little tiny fighter...
So what you're saying is you were hunted by 7+ enemies and it wasn't fun because some were in capships, but it would have been fun if it was 7+ fighters hunting you?
I'm not seeing the logic there.
I've been jumped by a bunch of pirates in gunboats when I was alone in NY several times, when it's a bunch against one it really doesn't matter what your in or what they're in as near as I can tell, you run or go boom.
Can you explain why 7+ against 1 is fun, until some are in capships?
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Akumabito - 06-09-2008
' Wrote:Secondly, and the bigger problem..."respectful towards the other member".
That's the whole issue, factions don't respect indies. If you are an indie you are guilty until proven innocent by the factions.
Since respect, or lack thereof is mutual, that means you're telling the indies that your factions don't deserve respect either.
On top of that, the indies that don't rp well aren't even on the forums. The ones registering are overwhelmingly active on the forum and in factions anyway.
The whole thing is pointless and causes more issues than it fixes.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Reverend Del - 06-09-2008
' Wrote:That's the whole issue, factions don't respect indies. If you are an indie you are guilty until proven innocent by the factions.Actually that's not entirely true. I would consider your point about faction respect towards indies. The other point about those these measures are meant to address may very well be true.
Since respect, or lack thereof is mutual, that means you're telling the indies that your factions don't deserve respect either.
On top of that, the indies that don't rp well aren't even on the forums. The ones registering are overwhelmingly active on the forum and in factions anyway.
The whole thing is pointless and causes more issues than it fixes.
I know most factions respect the indies that RP, not even RP well, just RP. Hell most of them will try to get the fellow to sign up as they see these folks as precious commodities to be nurtured. Even if they choose not to sign up they lose no respect, because you don't have to be in a faction to enjoy this game. I've had many indy characters in my time, none of which were unenjoyable. Faction respect is earned through RP if you RP your ship when it comes into contact with another ship then all well and good, word of mouth will spread and you will be respected by folks you've never even met online. Play it badly and you get issues arising.
Now I concur that it should be done individually based on what an individual does, but most folks who lead factions have real life concerns that need adressing and as always real life is much more important than Freelancer. There isn't enough time in the world for them to take note of everything so they institute balnket actions that do catch some good RP'rs out. It's unfortunate, but then it's the way the world works. Blanket legislation and some undeserving folks get collared. You can argue against it all you want but is it feasible that one person should dedicate his time to going through every independently owned capship to see if they are roleplaying? Of course it's not. In the same way it's not feasible for the admin team to make sure that everyone who disconnected during a pirating or combat situation had a legitimate reason for doing so. Everyone gets treated equally harsh or not.
There are no server rules prohibiting you from flying whatever you want within the RP guidelines laid down in those self same rules, however there are RP guidelines from factions that control the ship yards from which these ships are made. They do not stop you purchasing the ship they just ask for a good reason to do so.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - globalplayer-svk - 06-09-2008
' Wrote:So what you're saying is you were hunted by 7+ enemies and it wasn't fun because some were in capships, but it would have been fun if it was 7+ fighters hunting you?
I'm not seeing the logic there.
I've been jumped by a bunch of pirates in gunboats when I was alone in NY several times, when it's a bunch against one it really doesn't matter what your in or what they're in as near as I can tell, you run or go boom.
Can you explain why 7+ against 1 is fun, until some are in capships?
ok, i try to move all corsair cap ships near gc base for some days.... and we will wait on you in your fighter. some days after i try to move only fighters there and we will wait on your fighters. maybe you then understand the difference and logic....
and why 7 vs 1 is fun ? 7 fighters vs 1 fighters is not so terrible as i seems. because you still can not make damage to enemy. but fighters covered wth gb, and battleships, is not funny. because you must only run....
and basicaly is roleplay for battleship to hunt fighter? one little fighter? is it roleplay for it ?
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - chovynz - 06-09-2008
Let me add my understanding on this issue.
A long time ago, Disco was made.
The Disco Community noticed that NPC's are dumb.
The Disco Community noticed that the Liberty Government is static and doesnt say anything other than what the Overlorda of Microsoft told them to say.
The Disco Community said "This isn't good! without life the Disco will die. The Disco must not die."
The Disco Community said "We must do something! We shall be the government so that Disco does not die."
The Disco Community made offical factions that Roleplay as the governments of each houses, as we all know...the NPC's are dumb.
The Disco Community OFFICAL Player Factions are the Governments of each house. Those Governments are directly responsible for the production of any ship, whether it be Capital ship or a Starflier Light fighter.
You cannot be an INDY CAP ship owner without RP and be part of the COMMUNITY. That is the failing in your thinking Akum. You are trying to pull down years of history of RP by allowing INDIES to do what ever they want to do. Disco is NOT INDY driven. It is Community Driven with the leadership of Igiss. This community has said that capships are to be restricted, by ROLEPLAY, but many INDIES stick their nose up at having to write some RP story and working WITH the community. The INDIES want to do whatever they want to do...if they REALLY want to fly a Cap ship they should take their INDEPENDANT thinking and go to the PVP server.
THAT is the problem of the CAP SHIP issue, not the restrictions on obtaining and using one.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Eppy - 06-09-2008
Bub, you want to know what a problem is? The 101st has a Dreadnought, the Alhambra. One day I decided to take her out for a spin for some missions after I swapped out her guns. I did the swapping and, lo and behold, I undocked. I saw four hostile ships on my scanners. I was dead before I turned around and docked.
The Alhambra has been killed twice. Once as part of a pre-arranged RP, and that time above when she was dockraped by, as I discovered shortly thereafter, four Osirises (I'd only seen two of them, but I figured the other four had to be Osirises or Bombers, by how fast I died). I then stood there as I roleplayed the Planetary Defense Grid frying their asses into pulp as they lolled about in system insulting me as a player. I was a noob to them for being destroyed in a clearly illegal situation.
Admins only have so much time for sanctions. OORP and dockraping isn't enough to warrant a full action, even though it's technically illegal.
Do you think anybody should have to suffer through that kind of indignity without any provocation? To be lolled at on a Roleplaying server in a system where any enemy who wins a fight is supposed to take his screenshots and then speedily bow his way out? I don't. And I intend to do everything in my power to keep it from happening to the good men and women on this once-wonderful server we call Discovery.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Ors - 06-09-2008
All of you that so call fight for all the indie cap ships out there.
When was the last time you jumped into a VHF and flew around gamma/delta/kappa?
Try stepping down from your "oh so powerful" ship and fly a VHF like the rest of us, fly around for a bout a week, and just count the number of BSs, BCs, Dessies, Cruisers, Dreadnaughts you stumble upon...
Then you will know the problem first hand.
Try moving anywhere into your enemy's ZoI just to find 5 cap ships orbiting, oorp chating and just looking for something to kill.
Why trust any of us, who fly there almost everyday for the past year or more, here, i will personaly finance your ship if needs be, so you will finaly see the problem first hand and witness what we all are talking about.
If there wasn't a problem, than the issue wouldn't of rose up. but as it happens in system after system, house after house, faction after faction, that so many people of this comunity see the problem.
but yet, you refuse to acknowledge it, to affraid to put your own RP on review, to affraid for the chance you will need to improve it or work on it, or god forgive, even fly a smaller ship like the rest of us.. this is unthinkable...
Might I remind you all, this is an RP server - Role Playing server. Not a PvP server.
Here, what matters is the Role Play, not who has the bigger ship or the stronger guns.
It seems a lot of players forget that.
As for rules, they are written and enforced to guard the community from abuses such as these, they are made by the community, for the community.
And when the community rises up and says that the SPAMMING of Cap ships is ruining the game for them, then it means actions need to be taken to yet again to ensure this community still enjoys the game it so much loves.