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+---- Thread: suggestions to stop the pvp and capwhoring (/showthread.php?tid=9838)
suggestions to stop the pvp and capwhoring - Tenacity - 06-28-2008
' Wrote:factionalism.
It's easy to point and say "OMG FACTION POWERWHORING!" when anything giving them more say over your ship is suggested, but look at it from a nuetral point of view. Look at all the players, and there are -dozens- of them, who absolutely do not deserve their ships.
Something needs to be done, even if it's at the dissapointment of a large number of players. The only people this is really going to tick off are the ones using these ships without any hint of RP ability already.
suggestions to stop the pvp and capwhoring - Horon - 06-28-2008
The suggestion I have seen is to put capital ships on guard bases and require certain reputations to acquire them. For what it is worth, this should help ebb the flow of new capwhores. Now if someone new wants to be a PvP whore, or a capwhore, they are going to have to do some extra work first, in addition to the trading, they are going to need a special reputation, like a full guard rep for example.
suggestions to stop the pvp and capwhoring - Colonel Z.e.r.o. - 06-28-2008
' Wrote:It's easy to point and say "OMG FACTION POWERWHORING!" when anything giving them more say over your ship is suggested, but look at it from a nuetral point of view. Look at all the players, and there are -dozens- of them, who absolutely do not deserve their ships.
Something needs to be done, even if it's at the dissapointment of a large number of players. The only people this is really going to tick off are the ones using these ships without any hint of RP ability already.
Ima hitchu wita
![[Image: ec13e8bf-1.gif]](http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j242/photofruit123/ec13e8bf-1.gif)
we've go to make it so people become to like RP. I don't know how it started with me but it's slowly growing. B4 all I cared about were capships that was it. As long as I melded with the minimal requirements of RP I was fine I felt.But something's changed in the last few weeks....
suggestions to stop the pvp and capwhoring - Teknikal - 06-28-2008
All Battleships and Battlecruisers should be nerfed to cruiser power or lower and bombers should be boosted along with the supernovas. :yahoo:
//Don't take me to seriously I just decided to go to the other extreme to balance things out as I think things are mostly ok as they are. Exception being battlecruisers though but thats a tricky one to solve.
suggestions to stop the pvp and capwhoring - El Nino - 06-28-2008
' Wrote:like a full guard rep for example.
Yeah why not just place battleships for sale under full guard rep only...
Can this be done for ships? It can easily be done for equipment...
suggestions to stop the pvp and capwhoring - Laowai - 06-28-2008
I would like to call attention to the (several) posts that jinx has made indicating the scale of the of the problem with hard facts and numbers.
I also agree that this "capship" issue is mostly a beat up by disgruntled fighter and bomber pilots.
suggestions to stop the pvp and capwhoring - McNeo - 06-28-2008
Quote:I'm really rather sick of talking about most of this, except the Battlecruiser, Bomber and Cruiser issues, which are new, so I WILL issue a statement on that:
Battlecruisers do not need to be nerfed. If anything, I would increase the number of Class Ten slots from two to four. What they DO need is a significant price increase to reflect their relation to Battleship size. Battlecruisers are Battleship-sized craft with Battleship weaponry, but Cruiser agility and speed. By all rights they should be much more powerful than they are now...
Everything above the Cruiser needs a serious boost, IMHO, but the Cruiser-class most of all. More armor, anywhere from 25% to 50% more depending on the ship, bigger powerplants, and faster weaponry. They're not worth the money spent on them at the moment, they can't hold their own against two bombers as it stands.
Bombers need to be nerfed into the ground. Their turn rates need to be cut down 25% for the smaller ones (BHG, Red Catamaran) and 50% for the bigger ones (Taiidan, etc, and excluding such bricks as the Barghest). B/B needs to be cut in half universally, Supernova damage needs to be cut 30%, and strafe needs to be reduced 30% on light bombers and to almost nothing on the heavy bombers (excluding, as usual, the ones that are already brick like the Barghest). THEN it will accurately reflect how things ought to stand; We routinely have Praetorians fly into Outcast space and beat our Sabre butts, and while our piloting is awful, a bomber is NOT meant to combat a fighter, period. We should be able to fly LITERAL circles around them, and they should NOT be able to dodge a Capship at point-blank range like they do now (once the shield goes it's all over, you'll never hit them again). Force them to shoot at range; that'll give the Capships a chance to prove that they're worth the money.
Battlecruisers should get more than half their weaponry as class 10 guns. Onoz! Moar firepowah???
Incorrect. Battlecruiser powerplants cant handle this number of battleship guns without some serious drain. I do however disagree with that depiction of a battlecruiser. They are mean't to be pocket battleships, Battleship firepower, cruiser size, cruiser armour...
Battleship weaponry projectile speed may need to be increased by ~300ms, but that is the only change I would make here.
Cruisers need something drastic to make them better. They can't go toe to toe with battlecruisers, battleships or even gunboats, as it stands now. So, perhaps they could be made into an artillery platform? 5k range guns, 2000ms~ speed etc... Bit of a dubious idea, but I dont think they can be made to stand up as they should without affecting something else. They certainly need more armour though. Perhaps battlecruisers should have less armour than cruisers, as cruisers have armour instead of guns, and battlecruisers the opposite.
If changes such as this were to go through, bombers would not need a nerf. In fact, I dont think bombers need a nerf at all anyway after the last butchering they had.
The fault isnt the ship if a Praetorian manages to kill legions of Sabres. Frankly, I think myself in a Sabre could take down the Corsairs best bomber pilots without much trouble, unless they were mounting zomfgwtfbbq missiles (not torps, those are much easier to dodge).
Bombers aren't meant to combat fighters, period. But when you have a bomber ace vs a fighter noob, you can't balance the ships with respect to that example. Otherwise, things will be ridiculous when a bomber average goes up against a fighter average.
If you penalise the best because they have put in so much time into training, they will eventually give up. I no longer train in bombers for this reason, I just cant be arsed to learn a whole new discipline again after learning the 4.83 version. I concentrate much more on fighters now, as I know they wont be touched by a nerf. Now, if fighter dynamics were changed in 4.85 in such a massive way as bomber dynamics were, I would just resign and find another mod. However, this wont happen as fighters will most likely remain the mainstay of disco.
---
As a side note, I have spent a lot of time training in the past, and I continue to do so when I can now. I have always objected to people changing stats of ship classes because they can't be bothered to train for the same (and possibly ridiculous) amount of time that we do. Maybe its because said people have "a life" but then they should live with the consequences that having a life brings.
The above point was adressing a very common arguement that I come across just about everywhere on the internet. Not aimed at anyone in particular.
suggestions to stop the pvp and capwhoring - Colonel Z.e.r.o. - 06-28-2008
I agree with you in many points, I'm not really for the nerfing my point is compensating for being so large regardless of how great a shot you are, the targeting system is vintage and was designed for fighters now that we have capships they're much more difficult to aim with. Instead of the cursor covering 5m with a fighter it's cover 20 or 30m. AA aircraft guns can be found on all ships today despite their user being a fully loaded aircraft carrier always with fighter escort. when the fighters are tangled up the aircraft carrier has defend it self. Anyone who has recognized how the targeting system seems to work and has made the necessary arrangements so it's fitted for a slower velocity weapon (SN). Capships are still very large and slow so often no matter how good a pilot you are there is very little you can do. Battleships especially ALL you can really do is move in one direction and stick to turret view you'd think the masterminds in the order would recognize such an obvious disability.:P
Edit: I'm a known cap whore and often fight and lose to bombers but even with that I don't want to see bombers turned into useless pieces of crap. I'm just proposing a specialized countermeasure that makes up for the inablility to directly track fighters and bombers (and don't say missile turrets because with the way they work it's completely pointless.)
suggestions to stop the pvp and capwhoring - Eppy - 06-28-2008
All the Battlecruiser needs is more firepower.
Ad far as I'm concerned, Gun ranges ought to be so:
Battleship Guns: 5K.
Cruiser Guns: 3K.
Gunboat Guns: 1K.
Cruisers will be unable to go toe to toe with a Battleship (which will have more and longer-range firepower), but will DOMINATE gunboats (their problem opponent of late) because by the time a Gunboat is within firing range its shield and a third of its hull are gone, thus limiting the Gunboat to what it should be: an anti-fighter weapon.
And, while I'm in here, I might as well drop in a little note about mandatory faction control of Battleship licensing: DON'T TRUST US. I proposed the exact same thing once; needless to say, my mind has changed.
suggestions to stop the pvp and capwhoring - Dennis Jameson - 06-28-2008
The vast majority of "LULWTF" boats ( as i like to call them) are flown by bounty hunters. The BHG ID allows for mass cap whoring, and so does the BHG factions by not regulating things (mind you, some people don't want to do that, and i can respect it... But somethign must be done none the less)
I'm willing to bed that if you changed the BHG ID into... this, maybe..
Fighters, Bombers, Gunboats, Cruisers (only in nomad, and order, systems), Battleships (only in nomad, and order, systems)
That would most certainly reduce the retard babies sitting around Yanagi all day long (along with all other unpleasant BHG capital ship sightings)
Alot of people has stated that the BHG ID needs to change... So why not do it?
(I know that not all the cap whores are of the BHG, but the vast majority of them are.)