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+--- Thread: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? (/showthread.php?tid=115913)
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - KUBANA - 07-15-2014
So where to even start.
First of all take a look at EVE Online's Player Owned Customs Office (POCO). These stations are something like POBs on Disco. If anyone attacks a POCO, it immediately sends email notification to all members of Corporation which owns the POCO. After it's whole shield and an amount of armor (POCO has three layers of protection - shield, armor and hull) is damaged, POCO goes into "REINFORCED MODE" which makes it invulnerable for 24 hours. After 24 hours you can either repair its shield and armor to max and when enemy attacks the POCO it goes again in REINFORCED or you can wait after the 24 hour period goes off and then you can finish the POCO off. That creates a chance for the defending force to react even though enemy attacked while they were all offline (solves the timezone barriers).
I STRONGLY recommend to implement something like that into this game in addition to create a rule where attacking force or it's commander is obliged to create a thread where he threatens to attack the base and give the opposing site at least two days to respond + send him a PM.
Thanks
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Thyrzul - 07-15-2014
(07-15-2014, 09:46 AM)St.Denis Wrote: the effort put in to destroying them should be proportionate to the effort put in to building them.
You can't balance that, and this is the biggest issue of the whole PoB system, causing all the grief between the sides.
On one side you have to build and maintain your base, the longer it stands the more effort you'll have to put into keeping it alive overall. If we'd want to keep required destruction efforts proportionate to that there will be a point beyond which you'd need a force to take it down either destabilizing the server or you won't have enough people for that at all, either way the base would technically become invincible simply because it has been kept alive for long, and of course it's just fair if the attackers put the same effort into taking it down as well.
On the other side you have N battleships with their cerbs attacking a base, but dealing no damage as it regens faster than your overall DPS. With N+1 it would take 200 hours, with N+2 it takes 3. Now try to balance out these differences.
On one side you have to build and maintain your base, the longer it stands the more effort you'll have to put into keeping it alive overall. If we'd want to keep required destruction efforts proportionate to that there will be a point beyond which you'd need a force to take it down either destabilizing the server or you won't have enough people for that at all, either way the base would technically become invincible simply because it has been kept alive for long, and of course it's just fair if the attackers put the same effort into taking it down as well.
On the other side you have N battleships with their cerbs attacking a base, but dealing no damage as it regens faster than your overall DPS. With N+1 it would take 200 hours, with N+2 it takes 3. Now try to balance out these differences.
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - KUBANA - 07-15-2014
And you argument that you need as long as 1,5 hours to shoot the Core 5 base down?
Hell we've been shooting a POCO in EVE for 4 hours until we put it into reinforced and another 2 hours on the other day to destroy it
And dont even let me start on explaining what is a POS and how long do you have to shoot that thing and how capable of self defense it is...
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Thyrzul - 07-15-2014
(07-15-2014, 11:42 AM)KUBANA Wrote: And you argument that you need as long as 1,5 hours to shoot the Core 5 base down?
My argument is that the system cannot be balanced, and trying to look for any sign of which side of the conflict I am on in my post is futile and utterly pointless. Based on your conclusion I feel you completely missed the point of my post, I'd advice you to reread it without trying to fit me on any side of this debate.
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Ponge - 07-15-2014
(07-15-2014, 11:55 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:(07-15-2014, 11:42 AM)KUBANA Wrote: And you argument that you need as long as 1,5 hours to shoot the Core 5 base down?
My argument is that the system cannot be balanced, and trying to look for any sign of which side of the conflict I am on in my post is futile and utterly pointless. Based on your conclusion I feel you completely missed the point of my post, I'd advice you to reread it without trying to fit me on any side of this debate.
As we so far saw, tweaking the shiled damage absorbtion rate is not a solution, as the current 97% is too low, 98% is too high. What about upping the hit point of each core level? Giving it 4 times the hit points, it would take 4 times the time to zero it and kill it. 1.5 hours x 4 = 6 hours; that is a more reasonable time for the destruction of a core4 than the current 1.5 hours.
Ninja edit: of course, the repair rates should be also tweaked according to the changes made (if necessary).
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - KUBANA - 07-15-2014
(07-15-2014, 01:02 PM)Ponge Wrote:(07-15-2014, 11:55 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:(07-15-2014, 11:42 AM)KUBANA Wrote: And you argument that you need as long as 1,5 hours to shoot the Core 5 base down?
My argument is that the system cannot be balanced, and trying to look for any sign of which side of the conflict I am on in my post is futile and utterly pointless. Based on your conclusion I feel you completely missed the point of my post, I'd advice you to reread it without trying to fit me on any side of this debate.
As we so far saw, tweaking the shiled damage absorbtion rate is not a solution, as the current 97% is too low, 98% is too high. What about upping the hit point of each core level? Giving it 4 times the hit points, it would take 4 times the time to zero it and kill it. 1.5 hours x 4 = 6 hours; that is a more reasonable time for the destruction of a core4 than the current 1.5 hours.
That'd be nice
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Lord.MacRae - 07-15-2014
Very interresting ideas for balancing the: Hit Damage <=> Hit Points
I would appreciate such balancing, but I have to remind you about my actual intend, to demand more and comprehensible RP as "allowance" or to justify to attack a base, secondary time it needs to destruct the base.
To balance the build and destruct time, ok good idea, but are this, this or this posts really enough? (apart from your intention like: it was a Core 1 base, unsupplied, in my way, from a "at war" faction, the owner did no RP also, ...).
This is supposed to be a RP server and not a Sirius wide Conneticut!!! But the attack declarations are mostly without any. Hey, 4 sentences with 30 words? Unrealistic deadlines to demand an answer. Sentences like "I assume it is hostile perhaps, ok so I destroy it". Posting a thread when already shooting the base.
And so on .....
This is RP server, show more effort and passion, excert yourself for creating a plausible story. Tell your stories and intentions, develop them and finally fight with the base and hopefully the defenders.
Have fun RPing together, attackers as well as defenders.
And as Fortinbras said already, if you just kill the base, silent, attackers alone against a base (as I saw the last 4 times I whatched base sieges), in the morning when the base owners sleep, the story is over. It was only your one time pew and your one time kill, applause.
Wouldn't it be more fun to have a more constant pleasure than a one time high?
And also if not and you really just want to destruct something, justify these action with sufficient RP! (or even some more?!)
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - FynnMcScrap - 07-15-2014
(07-15-2014, 02:43 PM)Lord.MacRae Wrote: Wouldn't it be more fun to have a more constant pleasure than a one time high?
And also if not and you really just want to destruct something, justify these action with sufficient RP! (or even some more?!)[/font][/size]
I hate to do this, as I agree, BUT :
One man´s sound sleep is anothers guilt complex. What is *sufficient*, and how to define it ?
You could as easily try and define *fun* :-(
As for the suggestions with a timescale, and the rebalancing the hitpoints :
Why not a combination ? More hitpoints to give more time till destruction, and also a *damaged but not destroyed* mode ?
Lets say, if Hitpoints reach zero no weapon plattforms respawn, or they are even detroyed permamently, but the Base is set to a *review by Admin* state : No docking possible, Base is a wreck. It remains inactive till an Admin reviews the situation and Admin vote decides the outcome in RP.
Lets say :
Option 1 : Base damaged, such - and - such Materials needed to repair damage and only Base construction vehicles can dock.
Option 2 : Base demolished, repairs needed as shown at point 1 , but also the Base is reduced to Core x
Option 3 : Base is destroyed. ( Perhaps even a temporary Scrap field ? )
Of course, it wold mean more work for the Admins , mea culpa.
But :
- it would enable the attackers to gain a reward for their time : Weapon plattforms destroyed, possibly even a core degrade or total destruction if the Admins deem the Base harmfull or the RP sufficient
- it would leave a balancing and deciding element with Admin force ( did I really suggest that ?? )
- it would give both sides a reson to do serious RP - after all not only your fighting power decides if the base is gone or not, but the amount and style of the RP
- it would protect PoB´s from being totaly destroyed from lolwuts at the price of hauling even more materials to the base while giving a serious pricetag to Weapon plattforms. After all, the fact of being shot at without being able to retaliate properly seems to be the major issue for Pirates.
2 cent
... oh , and I would love the extra scrap fields ...
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Highland Laddie - 07-15-2014
@Lord.Macrae - you've said an awful lot regarding the supposed "injustice" of attacking Core 1 PoBs without RP, yet, unless you have played on this server previously to your join date on forums (Feb 2014), you've never played here under the "old system" where most bases were more or less indestructible, especially over Core 3....and they were also placed in some of the worst spots - blocking Jumpholes, blocking jumpgates, hugging planets, and in the middle of mining fields - and it was a much worse off environment.
You don't seem to realize that the rules and regulations we have for building and attacking bases NEVER EXISTED until the beginning of 2014. It was a compromise...and it has more or less been working great.
Flynn McScrap had a good answer on ANOTHER PoB thread and I'll repost it here:
Quote:Basically the rule favours big player groups and does not encourage sole players or small factions, which is exactly what it is intended to do.
RE: What is the amount of RP needed to destroy a base? - Lord.MacRae - 07-15-2014
@Highland Laddie: No, I think I did not say anything about Core 1 bases (perhaps in examples). Perhaps you think about another thread where that is discussed. I started this thread after Hone killing one base after another with only one quick post and after Ilfacombe base attacked after a some days deadline from lawfuls (and even unlawfuls together) who should defend Bretonians and not kill them.
I was not involved in any of that bases, but I do not believe that it should be like that.
Your examples with base spamming also could be solved with some RP integrated and ingame regulations. Like Bretonian law claiming no bases near a trade lanes or blocking it. Then a more or less simple RP can solve that and noone will argue against if the BAF shots that base down after some posts trying to figure out what purpose this base base has, who built it and a little deadline.
I am just talking about "Killing a core 2 (and more) base with 3 sentences of RP" or with unrealistic deadlines (sorry not every player can check the forum every day).
What would you say when Oceana is destroyed during the night with a post a minute before the attack? You waking up without any chance to defend it, and no chance to do anything because your base is lost? You get nothing more than a "I am an Outcast and start to destroy Oceana because I do not like the shapes and I am allowed to becasue it is hostile ot me" post. What would you say about that scenario?
Besides a date when a forum account is created does not say anything about me playing here. It is the brithdate of this character.