+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+--- Thread: To my fellow Outcasts (/showthread.php?tid=14507)
To my fellow Outcasts - Dab - 12-18-2008
Orin, Nooblet, give it up. Stop trying to bash and blame admins, mods, and factions and claim they are misusing their powers for the benefit of factions. I'm neither an admin, nor moderator, nor faction leader, yet I spent 20 minutes setting up a prospective guideline to restrict this cap spam. If your going to attack someone, attack them for what they've down, rather than making insinuations with no evidence to support your anti-admin and anti-faction campaign.
Kora, please keep matters in this thread on-topic. You have an issue with getting bumped out of a faction for your actions, take it to PMs or their feedback thread. You insulted an RoS, in-RP or out, and thats a 101st faction rule for its members. You are to treat all Outcasts with respect. That is NOT restricted only to RP chat. If you wish to continue this, again I say; Take it to the feedback thread, PM Jura, or use Skype. This is not the place.
Everyone else; This was deemed necessary. Over the last month I've seen the number of capships double. Thats just in one month. Its getting out of control, and the Corsairs are as sick as we are of getting cap spammed.
To my fellow Outcasts - n00bl3t - 12-18-2008
' Wrote:Here's a thought: the admins have said they won't ever restrict capital ships by their power, you don't trust faction leaders, so what about completely neutral and (gasp!) unbiased people? Just think about it for a while.
Have any recommendations?
' Wrote:Infact the sole purpose of the thread was to attyempt to instill a sence of fairplay in people I have seen using decidedly unfair means to win. Using unrealitic ammounts of capitol ships to gainm the upper hand in pvp.
This thread was -not- a faction/indy issue. It is a fairplay issue that needs to be addressed by everyone. Now, if you all want to turn it into faction/indy stuff then you're welcome to derail my good intentions.
Thank you all.
I do trust you enough to believe you, however, the moment it came out, I knew that it would become an independent/faction debate because there will be people who want independents to be controlled.
' Wrote:If you ask me, there should be a requirement for flying a capital ship. Or any ship, really.
Roleplay.
That's it! That too much to ask? People that exhibit ooRP behavior should be given short-shrift, no matter what size ship they're in. I believe we can agree to that point, at least? People having fun in big ships is all fun, but without roleplay it shouldn't be tolerated.
Teach them if you can, but when it comes down to it there should be a reckoning, and the ooRP has to go, either by education or force, harsh as that sounds.
And there's the root of the issue. Not capital ships or restricting RP, or independents and factions, but RP and ooRP. Even faction members exhibit ooRP, and that should be dealt with same as if an independent did.
Can everyone agree with the above?
Yes. (However, fair-play, such as missileboats and capital ship spam does not come under role-play rules, hence the problem.)
' Wrote:I responded to someone elses comment regarding it. I'm not going to use my mod powers on a trhead I started as people would start screaming about abuse of power. Wouldn't they.
It is good you did not. This is on-topic, because frankly, whenever anyone talks about a situation they want changed, where independent players apparently over-used capital ships this discussion will have to take place.
To my fellow Outcasts - Orin - 12-18-2008
Quote:Orin, Nooblet, give it up. Stop trying to bash and blame admins, mods, and factions and claim they are misusing their powers for the benefit of factions. I'm neither an admin, nor moderator, nor faction leader, yet I spent 20 minutes setting up a prospective guideline to restrict this cap spam. If your going to attack someone, attack them for what they've down, rather than making insinuations with no evidence to support your anti-admin and anti-faction campaign.Why don't you simply say "Do not talk or state your opinion. I don't like it, therefore shut up."
You obviously know little if you accuse me of calling the factions power hungry. I simply disagree with killing someone if you don't like the way they play. I know what you strive for, and it's noble, but the means are too bullying and hardheaded.
Next time you want to ignorantly accuse me of things I am not doing, don't. Funny how I never said anything of the admins either. Do your research before acting like a child. Not everyone will agree with you, and they are entitled to their opinions.
To my fellow Outcasts - Grumblesaur - 12-18-2008
' Wrote:Kora, please keep matters in this thread on-topic. You have an issue with getting bumped out of a faction for your actions, take it to PMs or their feedback thread. You insulted an RoS, in-RP or out, and thats a 101st faction rule for its members. You are to treat all Outcasts with respect. That is NOT restricted only to RP chat. If you wish to continue this, again I say; Take it to the feedback thread, PM Jura, or use Skype. This is not the place.
1. It's semi-related. This is after the fourth raid of that day, I was having a conversation with a Reaper. He said in group chat that he spoke with the Corsairs BEFORE the battle. I found that a tad suspicious. I asked him if he knew we were going to be bombed by 8 or 9 gunboats. He got offended. You misunderstand me, Dab, I have no problem with it, seeing as it may have been out of line.
2. It was in an RP thread, typically RP threads apply to RP and in order to stay in-RP, it wouldn't mention anything about OoRP? Got me?
3. I -have- PM'd Jura. Now I suggest you calm down and handle this carefully. Don't get all ticked over a few things. This thread is about improving what we as Outcasts are doing in general. My one Outcast character is part of that, so we should include that sort of thing.
4. I'm done.
To my fellow Outcasts - n00bl3t - 12-18-2008
' Wrote:Orin, Nooblet, give it up. Stop trying to bash and blame admins, mods, and factions and claim they are misusing their powers for the benefit of factions. I'm neither an admin, nor moderator, nor faction leader, yet I spent 20 minutes setting up a prospective guideline to restrict this cap spam. If your going to attack someone, attack them for what they've down, rather than making insinuations with no evidence to support your anti-admin and anti-faction campaign.
Congratulations, evidence-man. Call me anti-faction even though I am in more factions than I have independent characters. (Not to mention the fact I run two.)
Call me anti-admin, without bothering to read my previous replies where I said the authority of Admin's deciding who gets to fly their ship and who does not will be accepted by me. (I will not accept faction leader's, because frankly they are prone to abuse based on bias. Which has been seen in the past, coincidentally. Admin's who happen to be faction leaders decisions will also be accepted. Having said that, there should still be an appeals system.)
Get off your high horse and learn to read my replies.
To my fellow Outcasts - Zapp - 12-18-2008
Quote:Yes. (However, fair-play, such as missileboats and capital ship spam does not come under role-play rules, hence the problem.)
Missile boats, by game mechanics, will be impossible next version, so that's a moot point. And capital ship spam is, quite technically, ooRP. Would anyone waste the resources of running a Dreadnought to hunt down a fighter? Would anyone send a fleet of battleships on what should be a suicide run into Gamma/Alpha, throwing away countless resources and possibly costing them the war?
To my fellow Outcasts - n00bl3t - 12-18-2008
' Wrote:Missile boats, by game mechanics, will be impossible next version, so that's a moot point. And capital ship spam is, quite technically, ooRP. Would anyone waste the resources of running a Dreadnought to hunt down a fighter? Would anyone send a fleet of battleships on what should be a suicide run into Gamma/Alpha, throwing away countless resources and possibly costing them the war?
It is difficult to say what should be done.
Perhaps the community should come together and draft what can be called excessive capital ship use into the rules? (By stating for every GB present there should be at least two fighter-class ships, for every destroyer at least 4 fighter-class ships, etc.)
Perhaps we should all come together and draft something that says OC/Corsairs home system cannot be raided unless each side has an equal amount of firepower. (Alternatively, that both sides agree to the attack. The community will also have to come up with a definition of equal firepower. For instance, two GB's equal a Destroyer.)
To my fellow Outcasts - Zapp - 12-18-2008
I think overcomplicated the rules to the point where they're almost impossible to enforce isn't the answer, but I too fail to see a solution that meets everyone's best wishes. If there were two defined sides to the issue, I think it'd be easier to sit down and broker some kind of compromise, but I also fail to see what such a measure would include...
To my fellow Outcasts - Orin - 12-18-2008
Factions are already allowed to take action upon indies that are not following their RP, such as with an Outcast showing himself too close to Nomads, or using their weapons. In that case, they can declare him rogue and KoS him. This is another debatable issue, but I agree that RP is the focus here, and it is manageable for both sides.
Factions already have that ability, there is the compromise. Factions do not need further power, I'm afraid. You cannot compromise somewhere, then want to compromise again to establish more control. That's simply wrong.
To my fellow Outcasts - Dab - 12-18-2008
' Wrote:Why don't you simply say "Do not talk or state your opinion. I don't like it, therefore shut up."If I wanted to make a personal attack Orin, I'd have said "Do not talk or state your opinion. I like to have threads where logic and intelligence are used, not bias and anger." However, I did not. I stated my reasons as to why you needed to stop, and they weren't personal in any way. You have twisted it into a personal attack so you could use it that way. I don't get involved in personal assaults. No where in my post did I assault your character or your intelligence. I stated facts and opinions based on your actions and what you have said in your time here on Discovery.
You obviously know little if you accuse me of calling the factions power hungry. I simply disagree with killing someone if you don't like the way they play. I know what you strive for, and it's noble, but the means are too bullying and hardheaded.
Next time you want to ignorantly accuse me of things I am not doing, don't. Funny how I never said anything of the admins either. Do your research before acting like a child. Not everyone will agree with you, and they are entitled to their opinions.
Furthermore, I never said you aclled factions power hungry. Often one doesn't try to deny doing something they were not accused of, but usually it signifies true opinion or guilt. Along with that, I also never said we were going to kill anyone. Guidelines are there to help everyone have fun.. We have not decided on a kind of punishment for those who violate those guidelines. It may be as simple as we will never assist them in their attacks, nor aid them if they are under attack. Indifference and apathy is not 'too bullying and hardheaded.'
First; Refer back to Paragraph one. Second;
' Wrote:Funny how I never said anything of the admins either.
No, you didn't. You spoke of mods and faction leaders. Nooblet has talked of both and admins. If you may have noticed, that paragraph was directed to the both of you. However;
' Wrote:Factions regulating ingame play?
Twist.
' Wrote:Joe: You fellows start talk of restricting caps and their actions. What do you really expect, sir? You can always use your pretty mod powers if you think it's off topic, though it isn't.
I'm done here.
' Wrote:1. It's semi-related. This is after the fourth raid of that day, I was having a conversation with a Reaper. He said in group chat that he spoke with the Corsairs BEFORE the battle. I found that a tad suspicious. I asked him if he knew we were going to be bombed by 8 or 9 gunboats. He got offended. You misunderstand me, Dab, I have no problem with it, seeing as it may have been out of line.
2. It was in an RP thread, typically RP threads apply to RP and in order to stay in-RP, it wouldn't mention anything about OoRP? Got me?
3. I -have- PM'd Jura. Now I suggest you calm down and handle this carefully. Don't get all ticked over a few things. This thread is about improving what we as Outcasts are doing in general. My one Outcast character is part of that, so we should include that sort of thing.
4. I'm done.
1. This is about capship spamming, not raiding, nor the amount of raiding. Now about the 8 or 9 gunboats, well you didn't get attacked by 8 or 9 gunboats. Prove me wrong here, but I don't think you can.. Further, that isn't germane to what happened, and you have yet to bring it up until now, when your actions are on trial.
2. RP Faction thread, yes. But that doesn't mean that a faction rule for its members only applies to RP-related things. I know of several factions who have member rules about getting sanctions and your out. Would you assume they were in-RP context only? For no one ever gets sanctioned 'in-RP.' Plus, its common sense not to go about insulting other players when on your faction character. I personally would see no reason for a faction to have that rule. Its something that should be expected of every member. 'Got me?'
3. If you have PM'd Jura, and I'm not saying you haven't, then why continue it in this thread? Leave beaten horse lie, or if its yet still alive, continue the beating in private, rather than dragging its carcass into the middle of the street.
4. As am I on this matter.
' Wrote:Congratulations, evidence-man. Call me anti-faction even though I am in more factions than I have independent characters. (Not to mention the fact I run two.)
Call me anti-admin, without bothering to read my previous replies where I said the authority of Admin's deciding who gets to fly their ship and who does not will be accepted by me. (I will not accept faction leader's, because frankly they are prone to abuse based on bias. Which has been seen in the past, coincidentally. Admin's who happen to be faction leaders decisions will also be accepted. Having said that, there should still be an appeals system.)
Get off your high horse and learn to read my replies.
Most of those factions you claim to be in consist of 4 or less members.. HX I've not seen one of in months. ESS I've only ever seen you as. But that is not my evidence. Your past actions and words are evidence enough for me. I could spend the next ten minutes digging through posts, but I don't see a need to. Most people involved here have seen them. Its quite obvious, there are numerous examples of it, and you go out of your way to show it on many occasions.
And you've said before that you DON'T agree with admin's authority to restrict ships from indies and similar situations. That would happen to be in direct contradiction to what you say now. As above, there are numerous examples of this over the forums. Also, refer to paragraph below.
And maybe not all faction leaders are biased. Some think they shouldn't restrict capships to indies, some do. Jura dissolved the 101st's cap registry might I add. We only restrict the Dreadnaught now.
' Wrote:Admin's who happen to be faction leaders decisions will also be accepted.Now please don't try to go and say you think admins are all good and dandy and do nothing wrong. You contradict yourself here again. Your are outright stating that you think faction leaders, whom you have a vendetta against, abuse their power and do whatever they want because they are also admins. 'Evidence-man,' you are most certaintly not. For you have no evidence of these claims.
Now, I read your posts in great detail, and thats why I say these things. If you wish me not to see you saying these things, check your posts before you send them and make sure they aren't as agressive, insulting, and accusatory.