(10-26-2023, 12:00 PM)SnakThree Wrote:

(10-26-2023, 11:57 AM)Reeves Wrote:

(10-26-2023, 11:41 AM)SnakThree Wrote:

(10-26-2023, 11:13 AM)Reeves Wrote:

(10-26-2023, 10:38 AM)SnakThree Wrote: Or are you so hell bent on having your precious independent worlds untouched that you tunnel vision and blame it on one person who voiced different opinion to yours?

I'm just waiting for you to recognise the irony of saying that LibGov values input immensely while juxtaposed with the track record of stonewalling people for one reason or another. Surely you can recognise these two things as not going together.

Again, if this is about IC when they did not want to be counted as Liberty faction and went same route as OSC now, I explained my view and the fact that voting system would take into account the majority of votes, not just mine. So the voting process would work even if couple of people didn't agree with it. You have failed to provide substantial evidence to this and are stil barking up the wrong tree. And as I see it, no amount of evidence from our side would change your view because you don't look to be flexible and have ability to change your opinion when presented with facts

Seeing as you would consider any potential criticism a low effort attempt to slander your reputation, I'm going to have to cite hypocrisy in response to this. If you're immediately defensive at the threshold it really does say enough, pot's calling the kettle black in short.

That's because your feedback is factually incorrect. People who provide feedback how to improve LibGov and laws have been heard and some changes were implemented. Yours is unfounded accusations that haven't been done in reality. You talk about stonewalling someone but it's not true and you haven't provided evidence to the contrary. If you would, then I would take responsibility if it was my personal fault.

(10-26-2023, 03:55 PM)Czechmate Wrote: That was repeated over and over again by multiple people, just a couple weeks ago Kage stated people in gov (not him, he said other people) don't lime interacting with 1st due to the entirely oorp court martial without evidence.

That post stayed up and kept being referenced

(10-26-2023, 07:15 AM)SnakThree Wrote: Seeing how staff will be "supervising" everything governments do, I would like to know if there were incidents observed by players, or staff, that have been unfair or illogical that would warrant this shift from player-oriented government to staff-controlled. Thank you to those that can come forward and point out if we made any grave mistakes in our journey.

(10-26-2023, 07:25 PM)Karlotta Wrote:

(10-26-2023, 07:15 AM)SnakThree Wrote: Seeing how staff will be "supervising" everything governments do, I would like to know if there were incidents observed by players, or staff, that have been unfair or illogical that would warrant this shift from player-oriented government to staff-controlled. Thank you to those that can come forward and point out if we made any grave mistakes in our journey.

Remember when libgov spontaneously decided to outlaw =CR= traders flying through liberty (pushed mainly by shadow-logging LSF players, one of them being an admin), about a week after I joined =CR= and started trading on =CR= ships, and then libgov lifted the =CR= ban one day after I was banned from the server by admins for criticizing glorious team discovery on the forum?

I could give more examples, some longer ago and some more recent, but people really just need to read your and saronsen's replies here to know that guys with the attitude you display there have no idea how to use power responsibly.

Though a problem with this "staff supervision" is that many of the staff have no idea either, because they are as unable to acknowledge and deal with their own biases as some OFs or the people who are considered "iNteLligEnT enough to be in libgov" because they share the same biases.

The best shot to fix it would be 1: Write down concrete rules and guidelines for governments and official factions, better and more explicit than what we have now, so you get a rough idea how to be more responsible, and 2: Transparency in the debates. Give the voting and discussion channels of governments public read-only access.

(10-26-2023, 07:45 PM)SnakThree Wrote: The way =CR= stuff was handled by =LSF= was unsatisfactory in my personal opinion. Bu then Liberty Government had to deal with it inRP by not admitting any fault inRP. But I can assure you there was no discussion about you during the whole ordeal within LibGov. It was caused due to CR ships refusing to comply with lawfuls in space at the time, as every issue could have been solved via forum roleplay and diplomacy talks.

And I do not believe that you getting banned and allowing CR back to trade was relate. LibGob simply demanded apology by CR and they delivered. Whether you were in CR or not at such time made absolutely zero impact on decision. https://i.imgur.com/Ivolmaf.png

So please don't mix Liberty lawfuls playing on their own and LibGov doing their role. It's different factions, players, attitudes and guidelines.

(10-26-2023, 08:01 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Ah yes, the old "I know it's crappy behavior but hey it's ROLEPLAY so what ever can we do?"
CR ships refusing to comply with made up laws ingame, and now we have to deal with it IRP on the forum for 9 months because LSF's feelings got hurted when we didnt comply with a law they made up, during which time we cant fly through liberty, and we have to be polite although they made up laws and dont want to admit fault but we better do it politely or the ban stays.

Quote:How reasonable of libgov. A shining example of how someone with authority should behave. Everything is fine.

Quote:Oh.. and... nobody in LSF actually told you personally in the discussion with you that they were doing this out of spite. So hey, it MUST be true.

Quote:I rest my case on you guys having no idea how to not mess up disco's gameplay with power tripping shenanigans.

(10-26-2023, 08:24 PM)Saronsen Wrote: ...
was this when the admins made the CR ID considered a military one/had it in the name? as far as i can remember liberty has always forbade foreign military without previous deals or communications. was it a dickmove by =LSF= back then? probably. before my time in libgov
...
5 years ago, you may be surprised to find out thats a long time for things to be straightened out and cleaned up.
...
the oldest mention of you in the LSF discord is 2020. by me. Which means you weren't even a thought in the minds of the LSF at the time in 2018.
...
what case? that you think everything is a conspiracy against you? again?

addendum: Libgov had this exact convo in 2018 lmao

(10-26-2023, 10:32 PM)Karlotta Wrote: I know logic isn't your strong point but posting some screenshots that don't show certain things doesn't prove those things don't exist elsewhere.

Quote:You weren't in libgov but you were in LSF lobbying for screwing over =CR= because you can in front of libgov members,

Quote:It started the moment I joined =CR=, and ended the moment I was banned which effectively ended me playing =CR=.

Quote:Once again going for the super genius cOnsPiRaCy meme doesn't change that, nor does it change your behavior in this and numerous other occasions. Nor does the fact that there are other people doing it with you make it any better.

Quote:This kind of power abuse is exactly what has ruined disco over the years and driven people away, and is one of the main things we need to stop if we want disco to grow and become less toxic.

Quote:A working supervision of guys like you would be great