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+--- Thread: why do the phantoms not have a feedback thread? (/showthread.php?tid=25585)
why do the phantoms not have a feedback thread? - Divine - 08-28-2009
' Wrote:...
When roleplaying, give out quality equal to what you hope to recieve.
You give bad roleplay, don't expect masterwork roleplay from the other side.
Just to point it out once again.
why do the phantoms not have a feedback thread? - Violette - 08-28-2009
I once got pewpewed as an Unaffiliated, just about over level, Recruit IDed Rhino...
This one demanded I left his airspace, from 8k away, swooped in and reduced me to bitter dust.
Lack of proper engagement notice, in Alpha, I was training to become an Outcast....
/lackofamusement
It was unfair and uncalled for, that is one of the reasons this annoys me so much...
Next time I will get un-doctored Fraps for you.
EDIT: Also, not so much on the miners side. Just annoyed that I haven't seen any decent Phantom RP yet...
why do the phantoms not have a feedback thread? - chovynz - 08-28-2009
' Wrote:That illustrates my point perfectly. Why wouldn't you RP? Because you don't expect to get RP back. People seem, for some reason, to assume that it's the responsibility of the regular players to initiate the RP and provide the driving force for it, but I don't think that's true at all. The Phantoms have just as much responsibility as any other player to present RP (No, gaiz, 'RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIFE' or 'Tee hee! Wanna play?' and then shooting does not count as initiating RP unless the Terrorist ID is horrendously overvalued), and because of who they are (an organized group with a very, very exclusive ID), I think they have a greater responsibility than the average player to break the cycle.People also seem to assume that their way is right, and nobody else has a right to attack them without their sayso. This is a mistake to think like this. You are not superman, you are not an untouchable. You can be killed in the most simplest, easiest way. And you have no control over who will kill you.
People expect to get killed by phantoms, because they misunderstand what RP is. They make out of game assumptions that "oh look a phantom' he's all about PEW PEW and going to kill me." Look at it like this... Someone is holding a gun at you, one foot away. He's hostile, and arrogant. You would be stupid to try to run. You would be stupid to smart mouth them. Unless you were confident of beating them, you would be stupid to try to disarm them.
Wouldn't you try to talk, to listen? I haven't seen the video as I'm unable to, but I've heard what people have said in this thread. I've heard both sides of the story, that has been posted.
Actually, for once, this type thread has brought some interesting things out.
How would Sirius know what the phantoms are? How would a Miner know what the phantoms are? Oh sure... the Freelancer Player knows who the phantoms are. But how would the characters themselves know? I said by Bar talks, space myths..."You don't believe it, until it happens to you". I think that's a valid way. I would expect that an old miner who's been around has heard the "stories", but dismiss them as crazy talk. Those stories would probably flood back when faced with an actual phantom, and he'd crap his pants.
On the other hand I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect the phantoms to pour out their life story, so that the character can now understand that he's in mortal danger.
So, maybe there's a way the phantoms can change, or a way that characters can change to expect stuff. I look at it like this.
The phantoms (ideally) only reflect what the player expects. It's pretty obvious when someone doesn't want to RP. Those get shot. There is no other method. You can't board ships, you can't actually kill someone, yo ucan't arrest them or capture their ships. There is RP, and there is PVP. You have no choice other than to talk or shoot. (Shooting involves running, since running is not talking. Running is valid RP, but it has to make sense. )
why do the phantoms not have a feedback thread? - Violette - 08-28-2009
Also another reason why they could be such myths... everyone they go near dies.
No one survived to tell the tale?
I can see that...
I just want to see the Phantoms actually doing their goal. Destroying the houses. Anyone actually know or remember that is their actual primary goal for the mean time...
Bullying a defenceless miner doesn't fit the profile, its too.....pirate.
I can imagine Phantoms damaging him and telling him to go home and tell everyone about their 'ultimate power'.
Not killing because they can... This instance seems, too much like a pirate...
why do the phantoms not have a feedback thread? - chovynz - 08-28-2009
' Wrote:none of that gives you an excuse to PVP everything.Yes it does actually.
Quote:Pilot carrying this ID is a Phantom, who:
* Can attack any lawful and unlawful ships at will
* Cannot ally with any lawfuls
* Cannot demand credits or cargo from traders
* Cannot trade or escort traders
Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Transports, Gunboats, Cruisers, Battleships
Carrying unmounted IDs in your ship, as well as not equipping an ID, is a serious crime.
It really does sound like you are taking it personally, when they are treating you teh exact way they are meant to, and treating you the same as they treat everyone else.
Sour grapes at being interrupted it sounds like.
The whole way you have approached this has been one big whinge fest.
Why isn't there a feedback thread? I want to complain.
Why do I have to PM a leader with my complaint?
Why did you shoot me? I was in the middle of making money.
Why aren't people on my side?
Why why whywhaywhayyaawwhhhhhhaaaaaaaa.
I don't know how else to put what I'm seeing from you.
The posts. The thread itself. The questions you ask. The (from what other people have said about the video) RP that happened.
It's all, "Waaa. it's not fair. He shot me."
why do the phantoms not have a feedback thread? - Violette - 08-28-2009
I wouldn't care if a Phantom blew me to kingdom come, with some nice chatter and threats, not just telling me to beat it...
I read alot into the Phantom RP, read through all the message dumps and stories and this doesn't feel at all like what I imagined the Phantoms to be like...
They don't seem to give a damn about their masters the C'Tan, they just seems like abusive trigger happy terrorists to me, what separates them from unaffiliated Terrorist IDs?
why do the phantoms not have a feedback thread? - Virus - 08-28-2009
' Wrote:They're relatively small, and the only mile stone that Sirius saw was the ashes of Planet Cambridge...
I'd see the Phantoms as Myths, Ghosts of space.
Aliens, people wouldn't recognise them at first sight and know exactly what they are...
Heck I bet half the people here don't even know any of the Phantom RP.
For example:
Who are 'The Crathygtan'?
Who was Phantom Ember and what significant event was this Phantom responsible for?
Who is Revenant DarkStar, and how do the masters communicate with him?
What is the 'stick-thingy' the Phantoms use to make peoples brains melt and heads leak blood?
I'm fascinated by the Phantom RP and it P*sses me off that it seems to be wasted!
EDIT: And I've never seen you fly Virus, you're a founding father, you know your stuff. Come make me scared...
Hm. Done your background, I see. Maybe they only do good works when I'm out, but last time I went flying I sat back, did basically nothing, and let Ze'ev, Pitchfork, and Moros go on their duties. I literally wanted to clap because of what Ze'ev did to one trader. Best bit of RP I've seen in a looooooong time. Hell, the man practically converted to islam.
' Wrote:...Rob, I think I may be the only person here who remembers the MOX bombings who's not a very senior Admin. Nomad Battleship? I don't even remember that one. O.o
Aye, probably true.
' Wrote:Please tell me more about that... metagaming. Come on, how rediculous it that? If I see the Order again punished for entering Manhattan, it will harden my impression. Why should a human get in contact with a Nomad at all and why is the Nomad not attacking the human imedeately? Seriously... metagaming.
I have had one encounter with the Phantoms yet. Maybe Michael will remember: we met them in Frankfur near planet Holstein and RPed them to have cloaking devices. Everything went fine, they were even RPing back the same way. So I can't complain about their RP for now, even if I think their only purpose it to pew pew stuff up.
Well... Different times, those were. Insanity was acceptable. It was role-played and was an event with a possible win/lose scenario. We won that time. We lost in Rheinland when we tried again. And this wasn't put in the mod for the very reason that is was so insane. I would -love- to do an event like this again, but last time we tried (see GMG Aomori), it failed terribly.
I'll admit, it has been a long time since we've done any fun events. I've been struggling to find my niche as leader since Kane left, it's not been easy considering all the hostility I receive.
Of course, you all (probably know) that I'm not saying much in this thread so I can get an idea of everyone's perspective and do my best to make things better all around.
why do the phantoms not have a feedback thread? - Zelot - 08-28-2009
' Wrote:Also another reason why they could be such myths... everyone they go near dies.
No one survived to tell the tale?
I can see that...
I just want to see the Phantoms actually doing their goal. Destroying the houses. Anyone actually know or remember that is their actual primary goal for the mean time...
Bullying a defenceless miner doesn't fit the profile, its too.....pirate.
I can imagine Phantoms damaging him and telling him to go home and tell everyone about their 'ultimate power'.
Not killing because they can... This instance seems, too much like a pirate...
Then its a good thing that I decide what my character does and not you... see just because you would do something one way does not make it wrong to do it another way. But I am glad you have laid out your perfect phantom rp, so we can all now try to fit in to your vision.
why do the phantoms not have a feedback thread? - BaconSoda - 08-28-2009
You know what I see from this thread? I see the inability to think about other players. The inability to think outside the box. If things don't go exactly how some people think it should go, they throw a fit, blame the other players of having poor RP, and use their "status" or whatever as a shield. People here do it all the time. Heck, I even did it at the QCP, and, really, I should apologize for that.
Personally, I think Virus has been very open about feedback. The only thing he hasn't done is made it obvious for people to go.
"Hi.
This player called Pitchfork killed me without even giving me a chance to pay. You should cut this down in your faction.
Signed,
Someonewhohasnocluewhathe'stalkingabout (Someone who has no clue what he's talking about - reading those actually annoys me so I figure I should help)"
I don't think he should open himself to me. I guarantee that if you talk to him about something you find wrong, he will respond kindly with his opinion, if he disagrees, or take the idea into consideration, if he agrees. Virus is really one of the most agreeable people I have ever had the fortune to meet, and if you have feedback, go and tell him about it (Or one of the other members with CCs to Virus, if it is a particular player you have an issue with).
However, if you don't like the way we individually undertake our RPs, well, continue RPing the way you see fit, try and one-up us even, but we see our RP as fitting for our faction and that should be respected. I do this. I disagree with Reavengitair's choice of neutrality towards the QCP, but, you know what? It's his faction. It is his choice to put the finishing touches on his faction, not mine. I respect his ability to lead it and use his discretion at the way his players act. I disagree with the way the VF and RHA are approaching the Rheinland war, but, again, it isn't my faction. I can voice my complaint, but, these are their factions to ultimately define. If they don't think my argument is sound enough, then, it is their choice to define their faction as they wish. Doesn't Virus deserve the same respect and trust? You can trust him to be an admin but you can't trust him to keep us in line?
And to end, Eppy, if you have a problem with my RP or my character, talk to me. Please do not lay my RP about the forum like it's some kind of ugly brown and green carpet you can spit on. Some people rather like my RP, and I like to think that the same thing I said at the beginning of this thread applies to what happened between us as well.
why do the phantoms not have a feedback thread? - chovynz - 08-28-2009
' Wrote:Also another reason why they could be such myths... everyone they go near dies.Sigh...
No one survived to tell the tale?
1) I can see that...
2) I just want to see the Phantoms actually doing their goal. Destroying the houses. Anyone actually know or remember that is their actual primary goal for the mean time...
3) Bullying a defenceless miner doesn't fit the profile, its too.....pirate.
4) I can imagine Phantoms damaging him and telling him to go home and tell everyone about their 'ultimate power'.
Not killing because they can... This instance seems, too much like a pirate...
1) There are plenty of characters that have survived a phantom encounter. I'd say go search but I dont see much point in saying so, since I assume you won't. That might be unfair. If so, tell me.
2) How do you think they are doing that? Destroying miners who get teh raw materials seems like a good tactic to do that to me. It's the first rule in any Command and Conquer game. Take out the harvesters if you can. No cash, they can't do anything.
3) Pirates, terrorists are similar. True terrorists can kill on a grand scale so i see no problem with them doing what they do.
4) That would work. But then thread like this would happen anyway. No matter what the phantom did.