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+--- Thread: Ending the Capship Issue(and more) (/showthread.php?tid=9215)
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Nomad - 06-09-2008
@ Akumb
This is a game. The faction rules are out there to protect the faction members' rights to have fun as well.
Rules don't restrict, they enable.
The faction rules enable the members of the factions and the rest of the community to have fun. Akumb, if you could get this idea past your selfish mind, I believe that it would soon become clear why this is a problem. Not everyone here plays during the same time that you do. Perhaps you don't see the problem during this time period, but it does not mean that other people don't see the problem.
Regarding factions not respecting indies...
Completely untrue.
Factions disrespect indies that march around and try to act like faction leaders. Factions disrespect indies that are indies for the sole reason of getting a capship and skipping the whole rank-advancement process. Factions disrespect indies that have no idea of what ZoI is, and create massive amounts of trouble and discord in their ZoI.
You say that you never see any of this. Fine.
We don't care.
The fact of the matter is...we, the overwhelming majority, see this stuff go on every single day.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Akumabito - 06-10-2008
' Wrote:The Disco Community made offical factions that Roleplay as the governments of each houses, as we all know...the NPC's are dumb.
Show me in the rules where my indie outcast, for instance, is under control of the outcast factions.
He isn't.
Just because I fly XID doesn't make me a member of faction X, and no matter how much faction X leader hates that I am not under his control, I'm not under his control.
And that's how the rules are. Now that's also why we have these big headed faction leaders trying to boss everyone around, but that's just the way some people are, no respect for anyone else.
' Wrote:All of you that so call fight for all the indie cap ships out there.
When was the last time you jumped into a VHF and flew around gamma/delta/kappa?
I fly a HF and a LF all the time, the so called problem isn't a problem at all, it's a very occasional event blown way out of proportion by clan leaders who are resentful of the indies, and that have no respect for anyone but themselves.
The biggest problem on the server are the clans who only want to fight when they have you outnumbered.
Plus, the only guy I've seen blatantly breaking the four hour rule was a clan guy who came back to the same fight in another ship (same character name) following a server crash. When I asked him about he said a clan leader gave him permission to.
' Wrote:The Alhambra has been killed twice. Once as part of a pre-arranged RP, and that time above when she was dockraped by, as I discovered shortly thereafter, four Osirises (I'd only seen two of them, but I figured the other four had to be Osirises or Bombers, by how fast I died).
Ah, so you were killed by indies and that's what this is, a grudge being carried out on your part.
Hey, I was killed by 5 101st against my one corsair ship once. Maybe I should whine about that? Or does that qualify me to be a faction leader and pretend admin?
' Wrote:Now I concur that it should be done individually based on what an individual does, but most folks who lead factions have real life concerns that need addressing and as always real life is much more important than Freelancer. There isn't enough time in the world for them to take note of everything so they institute blanket actions that do catch some good RP'rs out.
Blanket policies are at their very core disrespectful.
Hey, there were probably some bad Japanese put in concentration camps in the US during WWII, right? I mean you couldn't expect the US government to check them individually could you? They were very very busy, right?
If you think it's your job to be the RP police, but you're too busy not to target good rp'rs with the bad (or simply the norm), then you can't do your job and you should step down out of respect for the good rprs you have persecuted.
But wait, your a faction leader so you are far more important than them, right?
' Wrote:Factions disrespect indies
Your right, factions do disrespect indies, and they seem to resent indies, perhaps because indies don't join them?
The server shouldn't be a place designed just for factions to have fun, and guess what, it isn't!
Factions are a minority on the server, and they need to deflate their heads a little and stop thinking they are admins and the arbitrators of what is and isn't proper RP.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - sovereign - 06-10-2008
Between the quoting out of context, the outright refusal to see reason or moderation, and the rather offensive intentions of your posts, I think you don't actually have an opinion but form your arguments off what others are saying, eternally trolling for another fight to pick. As far as I'm concerned that doesn't make you human.
If things are so repressive, then gtfo. Please. Find three people who appreciate your actions or posts, and support the way you carry yourself here. I DARE you.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Nomad - 06-10-2008
Quote:Your right, factions do disrespect indies, and they seem to resent indies, perhaps because indies don't join them?The extent at which you will go to skew my words in order to prove your point is disgusting.
The server shouldn't be a place designed just for factions to have fun, and guess what, it isn't!
I will requote what I wrote, including the parts you conveniently left out.
Quote:Factions disrespect indies that march around and try to act like faction leaders. Factions disrespect indies that are indies for the sole reason of getting a capship and skipping the whole rank-advancement process. Factions disrespect indies that have no idea of what ZoI is, and create massive amounts of trouble and discord in their ZoI.
You might be confused as to why this is the case. Allow me clarify what you can't seem to understand.
PBF, or Player Based Factions, especially those that are modeled after pre-existing, ingame factions, are composed of players who want to RP in the command structure of a faction. There are leaders and followers of different ranks. Part of their RP is taking orders and enforcing what they perceive to be their faction's policies.
Independent players can walk about, but the thing is, if they choose to RP as a member of a faction where there is a player based faction for, they really ought to have a better reason than the fact that they want a capship. Why? Because capships are usually restricted, as an enticement, for advancement in PBFs. If an indie joined a PBF with hopes of a cruiser, his/her dreams would be shattered, due to the fact that it would take (OH NO!) time to receive that battleship. Thus, the indie goes off, gets a capship, and RPs as the big admiral that he was too lazy to become through the faction process.
Then, when he orders faction members around, how can you not expect them to be pissed off?
The guy is pretty much sh**ting all over their RP. How is this respectful?
I agree with you, blanket policies are utter crap. But they are the best we have.
Finally, regarding your ranting about how most of the people on the server have no problems with indie capships. Allow me to enlighten you.
If you're not registered to vote, you can still have an opinion. But do your opinions get to affect the actual decisions? No.
These people that you talk about...The unregistered. They choose NOT to participate in our community via the forums. They choose to not care about the events that go on day to day, the very decisions that will affect them. They aren't on the forums, they don't participate, and frankly, when it comes to making decisions, they don't COUNT.
Trust me, we value them as players in the game, and they aren't treated any differently when it comes to the rules. The reason why they don't get counted in votes, tallys, debates, and discussions is all due to themselves. They refuse to participate on the forums, they pay for it. People have been asking them to get on the forums for ages. They aren't budging. Not our fault.
Thus, Akumb, you are wrong. The MAJORITY, the voting majority, disagrees with you.
Discussion, over.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Akumabito - 06-10-2008
' Wrote:Between the quoting out of context, the outright refusal to see reason or moderation, and the rather offensive intentions of your posts, I think you don't actually have an opinion but form your arguments off what others are saying, eternally trolling for another fight to pick. As far as I'm concerned that doesn't make you human.
If things are so repressive, then gtfo. Please. Find three people who appreciate your actions or posts, and support the way you carry yourself here. I DARE you.
I have given my opinion several times, that you choose to pretend I haven't is more reflective of you than me by far.
I have more than three people that agree with me, but they aren't going to say anything because they don't want to be target by the minority in power, and I'm not going to out them.
That fact that if I don't agree I should "gtfo" if I'm willing to voice my disagreement as you so eloquently put it shows the problem better than anything else anyone has said here does.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Reverend Del - 06-10-2008
' Wrote:Blanket policies are at their very core disrespectful.
Hey, there were probably some bad Japanese put in concentration camps in the US during WWII, right? I mean you couldn't expect the US government to check them individually could you? They were very very busy, right?
If you think it's your job to be the RP police, but you're too busy not to target good rp'rs with the bad (or simply the norm), then you can't do your job and you should step down out of respect for the good rprs you have persecuted.
But wait, your a faction leader so you are far more important than them, right?
I'm only going to respond to the part where you have deliberately misconstrued part of my post. This is first and foremost a game, A GAME, to compare the plight of indepedent cap ship owners to that of any oppressed group in the real world is highly disrespectful to them, their lives weren't/aren't a game. Here if you don't like what is being done you can walk away from it, go and find someplace else to play.
Secondly have you read anything I've said in either of the threads you've managed to hijack today? I do not entirely support the current policy of capship registration but I do support anybodys right to get some RP out of the folks who choose to roam about in their capships just to get into a fight. Most of the Military factions have enough capships to level half of sirius but I hardly ever see them out because they are not needed. However I do see them in their fighters and bombers patrolling around and being generally a nuisance to me in either of my factioned characters.
Thirdly yes I am a faction leader but becasue I rose to that level I did not create my faction, most of the faction leaders here rose to the level of faction leader after having been a boot for some time. I can make a small list of them
BLS Zapp was not the leader to start
XA Dusty Lens was not the leader to start
RHA Blodo was not the leader to start
101st Epyon was not the leader to start
HG Exile was not the leader to start as this started out as the Nova PG
The list goes on. Most of the faction leaders here respect those that give them reason to respect them. I suugest you look at Jinx who is a very well respected Independent and is generally considered a strong voice for independent rights. You however have met every point no matter how well considered and how well put to you with antagonism, you have twisted meanings to show how we are oppressing you, you ahve taken points out of context to proove how wronged you and all independents are, you have generally been insufferable.
Again I apologise for the shameless hijack that's occured here.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Cosmos - 06-10-2008
' Wrote:*Hey look a BS'z*
*Great !! Let's get 'em we are teh bomberz*
*Lolz yeahz killz himz*
>>>>OORP bomber whoring.
You say that but i have a corsair bomber and i barely fight capships.... i usually fight the Fighters i prefer SN'ing a fighter than pwning a capship, its harder and more fun.
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Eppy - 06-10-2008
In that case, Akuma, let me make this perfectly clear:
The 101st Will Do Whatever The Hell it Wants, Regardless of What a Single Greenhorn With No Respect for Established Behaviors Thinks it Should Do.
Thank you. You see, simple truth: No matter what you say, it will not change the situation. Your total refusal to see reason is not convincing us that 'there is another way!' Quite the contrary. It's petulant troublemakers such as yourself that we, as the faction and hence the government, as established by our organized military force and recognition by the Administrators as an official faction, are attempting to remove. Those that challenge authority not for the simple grievances that this creates (and there are some, we're not denying that), but for nothing other than the thrill of a verbal duel. We don't have to care. Have a nice day!
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - timmychen - 06-10-2008
Why are we here again?
Ending the Capship Issue(and more) - Kuraine - 06-10-2008
Akumabito, while I acknowledge the help you have rendered on a number of occasions, even with your cruiser (when it really was needed, the HG/NovaPG know of which battle i'm talking about), I have to disagree with you on this issue. I am for the registration of independent vessels with the official factions.
I have never had a problem with my Outcast Destroyer Drax ever, really. I registered it with the Outcast authorities a long time ago, anyway. But regardless of that, I have still never had any real issues with anyone regarding my flying it (besides the LSF occasionally moaning all those months ago but eh, we moaned about them too so fair's fair;)). Sure, i've been blown up, and i've blown people up, it happens. But i've had a laugh flying it, for the most part.
The point that is being made here is not to get rid of indie capital ship owners, but simply to have them roleplay. It doesn't even have to be that good. The respect is earned for *trying*, and that is all any of us can really do. If we try and give it our best shot, and stick within the rules, you'll have fun and I seriously doubt you will get anyone slagging you off for having your warship.
But bear in mind, roleplaying with a capital ship means adhering to some authority somewhere. Hell, you could always try being a rogue capital ship commander who is hated by everyone and can only dock at Freeports or something. But so long as you actually roleplay that, and *don't* dock at anyone else's bases if they tell you not to, then it's all good. If they are the official Outcast player faction, they have every right to deny you docking rights at Malta, for instance.