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+--- Thread: Experiment successful. Discovery is not a good place for newbies. (/showthread.php?tid=92596)
RE: Experiment successful. Discovery is not a good place for newbies. - Zed26 - 04-14-2014
I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but many new players look for the highest-ranked players first (I know many of my traders are asked for help). If there's a way to boost a player's in-game level through commands, max it out for the Angels/Helpers. I guess the admins could .addcash a couple billion, but that's got a lot of potential for abuse.
RE: Experiment successful. Discovery is not a good place for newbies. - Thyrzul - 04-14-2014
(01-16-2013, 09:26 AM)sindroms Wrote: Only the camara actually had some people PMing him about the IFF or ID issues.
Me in PM: // don't you have a bit too many IDs?
Reply: so? others do it too
Personal experience. Didn't want to start rule-lawyering, and after a couple of these I got bored of trying to help new people. Too bad I was already bored enough not to file a report, that might have helped them a bit more to learn the rules.
Reply: so? others do it too
Personal experience. Didn't want to start rule-lawyering, and after a couple of these I got bored of trying to help new people. Too bad I was already bored enough not to file a report, that might have helped them a bit more to learn the rules.
RE: Experiment successful. Discovery is not a good place for newbies. - Pinko - 04-14-2014
(04-14-2014, 08:05 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:(01-16-2013, 09:26 AM)sindroms Wrote: Only the camara actually had some people PMing him about the IFF or ID issues.
Me in PM: // don't you have a bit too many IDs?
Reply: so? others do it too
Personal experience. Didn't want to start rule-lawyering, and after a couple of these I got bored of trying to help new people. Too bad I was already bored enough not to file a report, that might have helped them a bit more to learn the rules.
It's only Rule-Lawyering if you tell the players they're wrong and that you're in the right, and that you might act upon it.
You're allowed to suggest the player to read the specific rule, and even quote it in the context, and you are free to offer them help with your sincerest feelings. Are you afraid of acting friendly?
RE: Experiment successful. Discovery is not a good place for newbies. - Ponge - 04-14-2014
(04-14-2014, 11:02 AM)Dancing Lady Wrote:(04-14-2014, 08:05 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:(01-16-2013, 09:26 AM)sindroms Wrote: Only the camara actually had some people PMing him about the IFF or ID issues.
Me in PM: // don't you have a bit too many IDs?
Reply: so? others do it too
Personal experience. Didn't want to start rule-lawyering, and after a couple of these I got bored of trying to help new people. Too bad I was already bored enough not to file a report, that might have helped them a bit more to learn the rules.
It's only Rule-Lawyering if you tell the players they're wrong and that you're in the right, and that you might act upon it.
You're allowed to suggest the player to read the specific rule, and even quote it in the context, and you are free to offer them help with your sincerest feelings. Are you afraid of acting friendly?
Yeah, but it is hard sometimes to distinguish what is rule lawyering and what is a bit unfriendly/not well composed help (but still, help).
RE: Experiment successful. Discovery is not a good place for newbies. - Thyrzul - 04-14-2014
(04-14-2014, 11:02 AM)Dancing Lady Wrote: Are you afraid of acting friendly?
I'm afraid of people misinterpreting my friendly approach and attempts at giving helpful advice as rule-lawyering, and reporting me for that. The anti-rule-lawyering rule/policy is also vague as F (people can shove their advices of "use common sense" up where the sun doesn't shine), vague enough to discourage me even more.
RE: Experiment successful. Discovery is not a good place for newbies. - Xoria - 04-14-2014
It seems like a real-time in-game help registry could be useful.
When you log in you could add yourself to the registry /addreg
If you log out your name is automatically removed. Or you can remove it yourself /remreg
By using the command /helpme the names on the registry would be displayed.
This would give anyone a list of people who are currently on the server and who are willing to provide assistance to someone who has questions.
Just given the number of times it has happened to me, I'm sure most of you have been randomly PM'd by someone asking for help. This would make it a lot easier to connect someone needing help with someone who is willing to assist.
Add a notice for the /helpme command into the intro text when you log on, and it would be the first thing anyone sees when logging on.
"For a list of online players willing to help new players, type /helpme"
I would expect experienced players who are trading to use this the most, since that is the activity that allows you the most freedom for other activities.
RE: Experiment successful. Discovery is not a good place for newbies. - HuggieSunrise - 04-14-2014
Reading this thread from beginning to end.. Spazzy i think your trying to revive some dead horse here.
Theres activity but not everyones going to care about the kids in penny or liberty because the vast majority of us have done our due. Found the forums Read and re read the rules ad nauseum and really.. at some point maybe realise if they really want to play here they will do the same.
Reviewing sanctions over the past few months. and its is a lot of new names with some old ones in there.
but really bumping against the sanction system is how people learn these days. In fact its how they've always learned its in the hands of the admin to be merciful or not but sometimes man it takes removal of their "hard work" to illicit the reaction strong enough for them to come and visit the forums in the first place and even LOOK at the god damned rules.
I have been roaming around on noob ships when i first got back, been seeing offical and un official factions on off hours breaking rules left and right. i dont do it to be undercover cop i do it to gauge how much folks care.
And they don't. a vast majority of these luls just don't give a rats, don't listen, dont care.
I think your quest to portray this majority as a diamond in the rough or every new player as some hapless blue eyed bunny is somewhat naive on your part considering you tenure here.
I would take this however as a sign of much needed change. Either de regulate or re regulate some of the frequently sanctioned issues to lower the admins workload but good advice is wasted on what i would say has been called the alter of good advice here.
RE: Experiment successful. Discovery is not a good place for newbies. - Highland Laddie - 04-14-2014
Let me tell you a quick little story about being nice to "plausible" newbs.
So, I took my Gateway freighter and put some fun flashy lights on it to attract attention and flew into Penn the other night.
While I was there...I made a system-wide broadcast that I would pay any freelance freighter 1 million credits to help me haul some cargo. Ended up with 4 freighters and hired one vet escort in the convoy.
It was a nice quick flight, gave the "newbs" (I understand some of them may have been vets just playing in freighters in Penn, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt) some experience flying outside of Penn without being in immediate danger of getting PvP stomped, and got them some decent beginner money as well (which really cost me a simple pittance, but without just throwing money at them for free).
Nobody was yelled at, nobody did anything sanction-worthy, and we had a nice little 10 minute flight. If anyone had questions, I answered them the best I could. If I didn't know, I'd tell them to check out the forums and read up on stuff.
I think if more people did little stuff like that, no newbs would feel unwelcome.
RE: Experiment successful. Discovery is not a good place for newbies. - Govedo13 - 04-14-2014
By catering, babysitting and carebear type of gameplay your wont help the new players.
Each of the new "helpful" features brought more lolwutism and idiocy. I would try to give some examples in order not to call me hater that likes to post shit without any arguments.
Buffing economy is handy ,now everyone and his dog can field Cap ship with CAU8. No credit sinks are handy, last time when I needed to trade in order to buy stuff was like 4 years ago. 6 months+ character wipe out protection is more handy then the previous 60 days, so the stacked cash that cannot disappear due to gameplay reasons does not disappear even if you are lazy to log in the game.
Unrestricting piracy for caps is handy and helpful for new players that are noob enough not to be able to pirate in bombers/GBs/Transports.
The result of those two is that Liberty is full of unlawful capital ships with cau8s flown by one-liner shot everything on sight type players.
Really great progress in helping the new players compared with SRPed Scyllas of 4.85 that required more time to grind, be part of official faction and on top of that were not able to pirate.
Because you know new players in fighter and bombers die quite easy due to experienced pvpers compared to new players with CAU8 autoaiming cruisers and gunboats. Even if it could sound strange once upon a time this game was skill based and people got rewarded with blue msgs for improving their skills. Auto-aiming TS crutch is not a skill and requires 1-2 hours to master compared with the years needed to learn how to proper use fighter.
The two hour instead of 4 hour rule is another nice crutch example that helps the new players to log faster back their capitalship after they explode and get back to one-line shoot everything type RP. The good players rarely die so the rule didn't affected them.
Removing the 10k PvP rule allows endless resupply of nanobots making the new players immortal because they are lolwut enough to exploit the system and cannot be bothered to learn how to dodge,compared with the old players that just dodge and die like man when have to instead taking the bots from the battleship/repairship.
If the new players had to walk the walk by repping their own ship,die a lot till get some skill and learn to respect the other side, getting sanctioned or helped in the process they tend to learn the rules in the hard way by just facing the music.
Same story for the official factions that are quite dead because catering the new players by giving them the same stuff as the factions.
The best possible way to help the new players is to have more faction restricted stuff that they can see in-game but cannot have. This would motivate them to find out how to have it, hence would join factions and would fix the broken server in long term. All of the "easy mode" crutches that were provided to the new players over the years proved not only ineffective but even had the opposite effect.
Looong time ago when the sever was full and when we waited to get a slot there was something called space is dangerous...
Nowadays equivalent would be space is empty laggy and if you meet somone by mistake he is trigger happy capitalship idiot.
RE: Experiment successful. Discovery is not a good place for newbies. - Zayne Carrick - 04-14-2014
Quote:Buffing economy is handy ,now everyone and his dog can field Cap ship with CAU8.Like something bad. (Zayne Carrick is proud owner of 9 cau8 Jormungands)
Quote:Unrestricting piracy for caps is handy and helpful for new players that are noob enough not to be able to pirate in bombers/GBs/Transports.It's more complicated than you thing. One simply can't pirate transport in cruiser because cruiser is 30ms slower than transport.
Quote:If the new players had to walk the walk by repping their own shipRestarts are good, cause players shouldn't grind anymore to get *desired faction here* guard rep. Doing missions have nothing in common with interactions and roleplay.