(12-01-2015, 04:59 PM)n00bl3t Wrote: If that was the case, your answer's already been given to you over the last few pages.

(12-01-2015, 03:51 PM)n00bl3t Wrote: I love these threads. Exceptional.

(11-29-2015, 06:42 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: But he's not entirely wrong though. Zoner ID/RP is barely used competently, and as I said in an earlier post they were intended to remain background NPCs. There's certainly some good RP out there (I hope) but most of my experiences with Zoners has been negative.

I am actually extremely pleased that in recent updates we finally have infocards denouncing the utter rubbish that is Zoner unity or Zoners having any sort of real power in Sirius. Hopefully it'll lead to less players being blinded by fallacy and playing the role as they should be.

Just wanted to run the idea of not shooting everything that doesn't kowtow to you as a potential basis for roleplay interactions. Might help. Maybe your reputation on the characters you're playing precedes you. Just an idea. Maybe.

(12-01-2015, 05:42 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Shame CW didn't get official.

(12-01-2015, 05:42 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: A big problem I've found with quasi lawfuls in general is that they try to be more relevant than they actually are. This causes them to take a very unrealistic approach to diplomacy.

(12-01-2015, 05:11 PM)FluffReborn Wrote:

(12-01-2015, 04:59 PM)n00bl3t Wrote: If that was the case, your answer's already been given to you over the last few pages.

Um. Then. Maybe I haven't noticed it, because of ooRP rant about Zonerzonerzoner?

(11-29-2015, 06:00 PM)jammi Wrote: Interesting thing to note that a lot of people miss - Zoners aren't itinerant. They barely qualify as traders, so far as the portrayal of the original NPC faction goes. They form enclaves - incredibly tight knit communities - on Freeports outside House space, some of which being centuries old. People come to them to trade - they don't trade with others.

Why don't the Houses shut them down? Many reasons. Firstly it's difficult to prove conclusively what's happening onboard because of Freeport's legal positioning outside House borders. Law enforcement has to be proportionate and specific - in this case it means the Houses would have to identify who specifically is trading with pirates, not just which station is.

Beyond that, it's actually advantageous to have neutral figures that can act as go-betweens for unlawfuls and House authorities. For starters, if groups like Corsairs can be weaned onto a mercantile economy instead of a raider one, they cease to be a predatory threat to the Houses. The Zoners are an interim step that assists in that long term manipulation.

Secondly, when transports are hijacked, crew are taken hostage and cargo is stolen. Usually long distance freight cargo is specific and of no use whatsoever to whoever manages to randomly intercept it. Zoner Freeports offer corporations a platform to negotiate the return of their assets, as well as giving intelligence agencies a window to intercept information or insert agents.

Plenty of reasons the Zoners still exist. The better your imagination, the more reasons there are.

(11-29-2015, 06:24 PM)jammi Wrote: Also, interesting note about House agreements with Zoners regarding 'NFZs'. Every treaty negotiated so far has given House forces permission to go into the NFZ and remove 'known criminals', by force if need be.

So effectively, another reason for the toleration of Freeports is that they provide minimal cover for proven criminals and maximal coverage for lawfuls and traders. For all they preach about neutrality, the Houses get a much better political deal out of the Zoners' cooperation.

The Zoners also know their structures are permitted to exist at the mercy of local authorities, so it isn't a good idea to antagonise the Houses by trying to change that status quo. The Houses don't really recognise the Zoners as owning any space - they just put up with them squatting there for maximum personal gain.

(11-29-2015, 09:24 PM)Karst Wrote: Another thread with a lot of people claiming houses have control over the border worlds.

They don't.

Houses don't even have control over their own capital systems (see: Badlands etc.). They most certainly cannot effectively enforce laws outside of their most populated areas. I'm glad the rules nowadays reflect this and put an end to the power-grabbing, fun-ruining idiocy of the houses.

Zoners exists because they offer goods and services that are useful to people in the areas outside of house space, people from both sides of the spectrum - sure Freeports have become kind of notorious for harboring criminals, but they're often the only lawful ports in the area as well. It's a balance that clearly more or less works for everyone involved.

(12-01-2015, 06:19 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: That's a good point Lyth. Zoners are, commonly speaking, not even a loose federation like IMG - like the Bounty Hunters Guild from vanillia, who were flying only the common technology and ships, not being necessairy the big organization. IMG are, according to the original lore, not really a one single body at all.

(12-01-2015, 06:19 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: Going back to rules, which I never wanted to mention, but let's go ahead with that. If Zoners aren't a single faction, they are, this way, a generic faction. Zoner ID is a generic ID then. Like Freelancer ID - but they are mainly dedicated to steady trade in regions far far away - and inside house space on a smaller scale. Also, I do not really understand "defending the Zoner bases/ships" line. This way, no Zoner ID is allowed to shoot at the vessels violating NFZ, just a small remark here. Because I do not see such a line.

(12-01-2015, 06:19 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: This however means that TAZ has no right to ask for FR5, because Zoners, like Freelancers, aren't even a single faction and TAZ do not equal Zoners, because Zoners aren't even a political power. This however would be resolved in one way: Pueblo Bonita have TAZ IFF and one station of choice around as well.