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+--- Thread: Devs require majority approval from community for major changes (/showthread.php?tid=175457)
RE: Devs require majority approval from community for major changes - Typrop - 12-20-2019
(12-20-2019, 11:30 PM)Foxglove Wrote: The question was meant to be interpreted in the light of this passive aggressive thread you started, Saronsen. It tells more about you than it does about me that you immediately interpret anything in the least charitable way. The context this thread appeared in and the general manner by which you raise certain issues betray a quite entitled attitude that is neither constructive nor objective enough to help your cause. If you want something changed and you have nothing to offer than to try and frame your opponent as though they are the untermensch and then propose they shall be enslaved to your "mob rule", then you are not the victim here.
Greeting passive aggression with an in-kind attitude is not how you're supposed to approach situations, particularly as a moderator.
RE: Devs require majority approval from community for major changes - Egon Bigmemes - 12-20-2019
(12-20-2019, 11:30 PM)Foxglove Wrote: The question was meant to be interpreted in the light of this passive aggressive thread you started, Saronsen. It tells more about you than it does about me that you immediately interpret anything in the least charitable way. The context this thread appeared in and the general manner by which you raise certain issues betray a quite entitled attitude that is neither constructive nor objective enough to help your cause. If you want something changed and you have nothing to offer than to try and frame your opponent as though they are the untermensch and then propose they shall be enslaved to your "mob rule" and ehat they think the people they make decisions for should spend their free time on, then you are not the victim here.
I unironically rest my case.
RE: Devs require majority approval from community for major changes - Foxglove - 12-20-2019
(12-20-2019, 11:32 PM)Saronsen Wrote:(12-20-2019, 11:30 PM)Foxglove Wrote: The question was meant to be interpreted in the light of this passive aggressive thread you started, Saronsen. It tells more about you than it does about me that you immediately interpret anything in the least charitable way. The context this thread appeared in and the general manner by which you raise certain issues betray a quite entitled attitude that is neither constructive nor objective enough to help your cause. If you want something changed and you have nothing to offer than to try and frame your opponent as though they are the untermensch and then propose they shall be enslaved to your "mob rule" and ehat they think the people they make decisions for should spend their free time on, then you are not the victim here.
I unironically rest my case.
Good.
RE: Devs require majority approval from community for major changes - xyva424 - 12-21-2019
Thank you for reopening the thread, now, despite the previous drama can we please allow for some more constructive feedback here for a bit while the votes continue?
RE: Devs require majority approval from community for major changes - Karlotta - 12-21-2019
(12-21-2019, 09:23 PM)xyva424 Wrote: Thank you for reopening the thread, now, despite the previous drama can we please allow for some more constructive feedback here for a bit while the votes continue?
Yeah.
There are more options than either authoritarian dictatorship or democracy (or mob rule or whatever you wanna call the two).
For example to solve issues through dialectic and critique.
One of the core problems here is that leaders (2008 till present) rarely understand the value of criticism and the benefit that can be extracted from it. Instead they treat it like challenges to their authority and try to tell themselves that everything is just opinion, there is no such thing as truth, and therefore only what leaders say truly matters.
And it doesn't help that a lot of criticism here also IS delivered together with personal attacks, and that a lot of those personal attacks result from the fact that repeated constructive criticism was drowned out in the... frankly idiotic... for ever repeated phrases like "dont complain, go play", "if you don't like it leave", "our leaders are unpaid volunteers so you should be thankful", "I'd like to see you do everything our leaders do" which are NOT helpful for a constructive discussion in any way.
RE: Devs require majority approval from community for major changes - xyva424 - 12-22-2019
I can agree with that. I believe what we have is a community that wants to help in the mods development and a staff that see the assistance as diminishing their authority from our perspective. From their perspective they may just not want the community screwing "plans" up which is also a problem because if no one but the devs wanted to play the mod they probably wouldn't make it but by cutting off the community from the process as much as they do most of the players don't want to play anymore.
If the goal is to rebuild the community we need to attract veteran players and even entirely new players if we can, but we also have to get them to stick around. I've recently returned and tried the event out but really it wasn't something for me to keep logging in for, sure the money is great but its a long haul through obnoxious space for what? Credits I already don't use? Maybe its just that I'm from a practical rp environment and this is a forced rp environment but its just really not been fun these past weeks.
RE: Devs require majority approval from community for major changes - Dark.Star - 12-22-2019
*usaflag.jpg*
*democratic guy finger snapping*
i love democracy
RE: Devs require majority approval from community for major changes - Enkidu - 12-22-2019
The problem with this concept is that people will actively buff the largest factions in the game, circumventing the systems to get cool things in a reasonable manner. Equally everybody in the community already has the equal right to make changes.
You're talking about giving people the right to make instantaneous, scan-read spur-of-the-moment choices that impact the mod. We don't need more of that in December, 2019.
You can already change the mod - any of us - via the content submission system.
RE: Devs require majority approval from community for major changes - xyva424 - 12-22-2019
I'm not talking about making instant changes to the mod, its more in line with the transparency that has been repeatedly pushed for. I believe story development should be a public process where the community creates stories and decides whats worthy of canonization. I can be divided into official factions running the stories for their respective factions but the official factions still need some community over sight.
What no one but the devs seem to prefer is nearly random story arcs that push the community into accepting story dev changes as canon because the devs thought it sounded like a great idea internally and didn't consult the community about them. That's how this poll got started in the first place.
I dont mind the canon story being handled via the forums but realistically the in game environment needs to change if none of it is canon anyway. Instead we should be addressing playability to better encourage players to stick around and fix the issues with just logging in and finding others to interact with.
RE: Devs require majority approval from community for major changes - Omi - 12-22-2019
(12-20-2019, 11:30 PM)Foxglove Wrote: The question was meant to be interpreted in the light of this passive aggressive thread you started, Saronsen. It tells more about you than it does about me that you immediately interpret anything in the least charitable way. The context this thread appeared in and the general manner by which you raise certain issues betray a quite entitled attitude that is neither constructive nor objective enough to help your cause. If you want something changed and you have nothing to offer than to try and frame your opponent as though they are the untermensch and then propose they shall be enslaved to your "mob rule" and ehat they think the people they make decisions for should spend their free time on, then you are not the victim here.
What are you even trying to say? Is this meant to actually have a point to it or is it just some kind of masturbatory exercise in big words and passive-aggressive moderation?
Saronsen is right, by the way, as he usually is -- even if I've never been able to get along with him.