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+--- Thread: To The Admins: In Reference to the TCG Faction Right 5 (/showthread.php?tid=44088)
To The Admins: In Reference to the TCG Faction Right 5 - Boss - 07-19-2010
Huzzah for politics.
Everyone GTFO and get on with life, please.
To The Admins: In Reference to the TCG Faction Right 5 - Jihadjoe - 07-19-2010
![[Image: columbo.jpg]](http://www.londonist.com/attachments/sizemore/columbo.jpg)
[font=Impact][color=#FF6600]"Just one more thing. . ."
Given the possible answers to the questions I asked, does this make any roleplay interaction between the TCG and Order| valid?
(Also Waratah, in sanction reports we [the admins] can't use chatlogs like the one posted as evidence.)
*Walks away again puffing on a cigar*
To The Admins: In Reference to the TCG Faction Right 5 - Moreton - 07-19-2010
' Wrote:Svarog's post clearly shows how i was attacked and even the admiral
reprimands his own pilot for attacking me. And others tell him to stop
shooting me ..but this never happened did it.
I seriously face palmed when I saw this...
You attacked? I'm not even going into how wrong this is, you know this is completely wrong, and I shouldn't even have to explain why.
As for the guy shooting at you? Did you see what the admiral did? He took control, because somebody on under his command was acting out of line. I don't see a problem.
Try harder.
Also, until anyone sees this 'video', don't expect anyone to believe you. You can't claim you have evidence, then just ignore it.
Also
' Wrote:If anyone needs the TCG video evidence i have, i can send it to them, but we are going
with this story now. End of.
So don't come out with some BS about only being able to show the video to an admin, when you've asked if anyone wants to see it.
Also, with so much evidence against you released for every one to see, I don't see how you can expect people to believe you over the Order|, when you refuse to show any evidence in your favour.
To The Admins: In Reference to the TCG Faction Right 5 - Zelot - 07-19-2010
' Wrote:I suppose the principle concern raised by people not personally involved in this involves the ordering of ships to not do something that is, at the surface, part of the faction's canon.
The Order, enemies: Liberty Navy. Simply put, then you can bash on each other as much as you want.
If the official faction in question seeks to establish a particular tactical or strategic approach to the fighting of that war, they can. That includes things like temporarily seeking detente in the face of escalation, making first steps towards diplomatic manouveres, or possibly determining how resources are to be utilised in the prosecution of that war. If, for example, the KNF ordered non faction KNF ID'd ships to temporarily cease bombardment of Planet Leeds in the face of reprisals by the Bretonians, then it would be reasonable to assume that such an order served the greater good of the KNF faction in its entirety (faction and independent). This would be different if said group were ordered to not attack an enemy ever, or if the official faction was ordering someone to not do something that they allowed themselves to do.
A group cannot be FR5'd for following a faction's canon roleplay in the face of orders to the contrary. Shooting members of the official faction for their attempts to assert some sort of authority or direction in the fighting of a war is a different matter entirely.
I'm sure much of this could have been elaborated when the reputation adjustment report was posted. The case put by the official faction was well supported. The hope is that a roleplaying response be developed. I will remind my fellow Admins that we need to be more mindful of the community's need to be informed as much as possible about changes in gameplay like this.
The Admin team is aware of the rules, and of the need to avoid becoming embroiled in matters that are outside ensuring the smooth running of the server.
The number of rebellions in the Omicrons is something that perhaps the development team can address.
Zelot, I hope this explains my reasoning at least in supporting this decision (after the fact). However, I will add one thing. We make decisions on information provided by players. Often, that information may be incomplete. No decision made is ever final. All players should note that if evidence comes to light that this was the exercise of power for its own sake or to attempt to resolve personal differences (as opposed to differing perspectives on how to play a particular faction), the decision will be examined and, if necessary, reversed.
Thanks Athenian, while I dont agree with the admins totally on this, I do really appreciate you taking the time to explain your thinking on this.
To The Admins: In Reference to the TCG Faction Right 5 - farmerman - 07-19-2010
' Wrote:Thank Athenian, while I dont agree with the admins totally on this, I do really appreciate you taking the time to explain your thinking on this.
I concur.
To The Admins: In Reference to the TCG Faction Right 5 - Alex. - 07-19-2010
May I suggest a mod locks this now?
To The Admins: In Reference to the TCG Faction Right 5 - Elsdragon - 07-19-2010
I concur, we need a lock. Question answered.
To The Admins: In Reference to the TCG Faction Right 5 - Tenacity - 07-19-2010
To add onto what athenian mentioned in his response - a lot of people here seem to be under the impression that The Order is shaking hands with liberty, throwing tea parties, and declaring an alliance. This is not the case, not in the least - we are still enemies, The Order does not approve of Liberty's experiments or use of nomad specimens in Alaska.
The issue is that we are not a military, we are not a house navy nor do we have some hidden infinite supply of warships. We cannot control the number of indy caps that are flying on the server, but as far as RP is concerned we are a small, covert group that relies primarily on intel and precision strikes - not all-out warfare.
The order from OHC was to remove our capital ships from Alaska after Hale's ultimatum. Doing so not only ensures that the situation with liberty will not escalate beyond our power to control, it also ensures the survival of the organization as a whole and pulls our valuable warships out of harm's way. Fighters and bombers can handle the tasks we're undertaking in Alaska, and are far more capable at remaining hidden and avoiding enemy forces.
What the TCG and those supporting them fail to understand is that, if we were to continue operating full-scale in alaska and were to incite the wrath of the liberty navy, we would have lolwutting LNS caps sitting outside toledo 24/7 - our ships wouldnt even have a chance to launch, and how exactly are we supposed to fight the big bad aliens if a bunch of pvpwhoring liberty caps are keeping us from even leaving our own system?
We already have that situation with the BHG, we dont need it worsened. This entire incident is simply a case of a group of players not taking the time to think ahead - the OHC is constantly ridiculed for taking too long to make decisions, but at least we're thinking about the consequences beforehand. Nothing regarding diplomacy or potential wars is taken lightly.
To The Admins: In Reference to the TCG Faction Right 5 - Agmen of Eladesor - 07-19-2010
I do apologize for my lack of eloquence with words. Athenian does do it so much better than I do.
And I think on that note, that we can consider the question that was asked as answered, and that this needs to be put to bed for a while. Just to do my own Columbo comment, though ...
Those who fail to learn from history are themselves doomed to repeat it. The Apocalypse wing and the Imitator group were both incidents where a group of pilots were ordered by the head of the faction to do something that was in RP. The Imitators allegedly disbanded after complying (under protest), and of course we all know what happened to the Apocalypse wing. Some of the same pilots that were involved in both of those incidents were involved in this one.
If you don't think that we don't keep that in the backs of our minds, when we see the same thing happening again and again, then you are very sadly mistaken. And trust me, those of us on the admin team are more than capable of looking at evidence, including screenshots and videos, and seeing things. As Joe said, we cannot take chat logs alone as evidence of ANY wrongdoing.