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+--- Thread: The Kusari Exiles (4.86) (/showthread.php?tid=70018)
The Kusari Exiles (4.86) - Linkus - 12-14-2011
' Wrote:You dont need admin power for that as you know, just look at the CR and SCRA, two factions, you are in the leadership of, or have been in the past, correct?
I haven't done..anything really to keep the CR or SCRA closed. If I have, oh dear, I don't give two hoots about it really.
Just would like to point out that using your Admin powers to keep your faction closed is a little odd.
EDIT:
Quote:Where is the admin notice on the SCRA and CR?
I do believe there's dev notices about it.
Yet no Admin ones.
Interesting.
The Kusari Exiles (4.86) - Unseelie - 12-14-2011
Just stating things as I understand them, not trying to influence anyone. (except for you)
My understanding of the CR and the SCRA has been this: a player not in a faction is not allowed to use their tags. That's very simple, and a rule. It allows people to lock them in. There's a faction right that allows a faction to pound on people portraying their faction wrong, I believe.
In the case of the Wilde, the Nomads, Aoi Isejen, and Phantoms, (and now SCRA (I dunno how CR tagging works)) they were all supported in their being closed by the fact that there was no way for a player without faction permission to get the tags. I think that's how the admin faction is closed to indies as well, as a game mechanic. Without this game mechanic, which is what I think is going on here...I suspect you're going to have loots of trouble with people flying the NPC tags..
but I don't suspect, at any point, you'll have 10 cruisers, or 25 gunboats online, nor, presumably, the tens of fighters that comprises 'a few wings'. The only thing you have to worry about, in terms of the realizm of your relatively small numbers, is the possibility of Battleships. I believe you have a max of three player battleships
Another concern, since there's an npc faction emerging, is that the npcs will play all sorts of silly with those strict numbers.
The Kusari Exiles (4.86) - AndrzejB - 12-14-2011
Zelot The Great who we all admire for this decision Wrote:First off this will be a (everyone get ready to scream and yell) a closed faction. There will be no indies.I'm happy with that outcome :-).
However, what Dab and Linkus said is still valid.
Small edit: The image of gazillions of indie Ronin lolcaps shooting everyone and then going "U cant do anything, u need us, lololol" haunts my mind.
Pancakes Wrote:As for "Why Bretonia doesn't arrest the emperor?"Seems I can't write what I mean. Again:
Bretonia, unlike some might illustrate, have barely any force to fight off the GRN. Alone they simply -can't- make it. The Ronin compared to the remaining Bretonian forces are quite numerous and if Bretonia will attack them they will achieve nothing but anther enemy.
Brets are supposed to fight side-by-side with a former enemy whom they disrespect. From the rational point of view they don't want another enemy.
Alas! The Emperor (and, more likely, his subordinates) may start to act like a regular *** for one reason or another. If such events take place, the Bretonians will have to give him a slap on his lower back, otherwise they would risk... maybe not mutiny, maybe just lynching the Kusarians. Even worse, the auxiliaries may do it for no real reason (I mean, inRP they have all perfect reasons; inRP threat of FR5 is not that strong when you have popular support).
The question is: How is the Emperor going to behave in order not to provoke Bretonians to do that? What reasons, except the obvious ones, is he going to give? Because, as was stated before, he need Brets more than Brets need him. Is he going to apologize for the alleged or real war crimes? Or maybe he will find a scapegoat to blame for it (a few high ranking officers, preferably now in Kusari, loyal to the new gov)? Will he accept arresting some of his people? Is he going to proclaim that some important things will change in the Kusari after the war?
Yes, I know that some of these above mean loss of face for him and crippled morale of Ronin troops. On the other hand lack of any of similar actions will result in even more severe loss of face for Bretonia and corresponding decrease of morale of Bretonian pilots. And the Bretonian pilots are crucial while the Ronin are just useful meatshield.
(Hard decisions in-RP FTW.)
Pancakes Wrote:Also, Renzu ships are not just in Kusari. They are found in Sirius' freemarket, and former KNF soldiers wouldn't dare to use anything that is not Kusari originated, that's part of Kusari's RP.But they are built in Kusari, aren't they? (Otherwise the Ronin pilots couldn't fly them:)). If the new Kusarian government is not able to control the export of civilian craft it may be as well unable to control other shipments hauled from Kusari via Liberty (especially since the Liberty is a bit anti-gallic and pro-bretonian).
Zelot Wrote:That said, we will not be changing relations because the Bretonians thing oorp we shouldn't work with them.Sorry, what?
Zelot Wrote:But yea, if the Bretonians want to not go along with the storyline and cooperate, I guess I can just change the Ronin to attacking Bretonia alongside the Gallics? Right? No, we have to play by the storyline which says that the Exiles are having cooperation, even grudgingly with Bretonia.It is a double-edged sword. When they catch you cooperating with Gaians, pretty much nothing can be changed. Storyline. And they will catch you, it's a matter of time. It sounds as if getting caught is acceptable because of it.
Only hope lies in the faction being <strike>elitist</strike> closed.
Heck, if I were a politician in Bretonia, I would try to send some of the Ronin to fight against their former allies (Gaians) to make sure that they are depend on Bretonia in 100%. Just to ensure the loyalty.
Zelot Wrote:Finally, Samura will still be dealing with the Ronin, as Samura also sees Kogen's potential victory as their way back to power in Kusari. They will just be getting to the Ronin via Liberty and Rhienland.So, are the Ronin cut off from the Kusari or not? Or to what extent? I'm confused.
The Kusari Exiles (4.86) - Pancakes - 12-14-2011
*Doing an emo brag-in*
Anyway, Dab, Linkus, would you play as KNF in Kusari when you can play Ronin? Ask your-self that question several times, if the answer is yes then you are most likely lying to yourself or that you really like KNF RP.
Moreover, tell me the reason why Wilde are closed faction, why SCRA are? (I would list CR too, but if someone was so keen about roleplaying as CR indie, he could take IMG ID and put a CR IFF).
SCRA have a system with NPCs, ID and IFF.
Wilde have that too.
Wilde - I could understand. You want to limit the tech - np, why not to create a "wilde indie" ID? in they style of a morph.
So seriously, why them should be closed but Ronin not?
The Kusari Exiles (4.86) - Linkus - 12-14-2011
' Wrote:*Doing an emo brag-in*
Anyway, Dab, Linkus, would you play as KNF in Kusari when you can play Ronin? Ask your-self that question several times, if the answer is yes then you are most likely lying to yourself or that you really like KNF RP.
Moreover, tell me the reason why Wilde are closed faction, why SCRA are? (I would list CR too, but if someone was so keen about roleplaying as CR indie, he could take IMG ID and put a CR IFF).
SCRA have a system with NPCs, ID and IFF.
Wilde have that too.
Wilde - I could understand. You want to limit the tech - np, why not to create a "wilde indie" ID? in they style of a morph.
So seriously, why them should be closed but Ronin not?
Good question.
I presume it's due to the SCRA's tech apparently being overpowered when combined with other equipment and the high grade of RP demanded by the SCRA.
Same goes for the Wilde/Nomads etc.
It's really down to the RP and IDs I think though. RP wise, it has to be good and all following the same line. ID wise, they are basically able to shoot everything.
Worth considering opening them up.
The Ronin are the KNF, just smaller.
They cannot kill everyone. Their RP will be well..KNF RP really.
They are also one of the most interesting and important factions in 4.86, simply due to who they are and the role they play.
They aren't aliens and aren't really open to about 5000 different opinions on how they should construct their entire society. (Nommie reference)
They don't need to fly battleships. They have 5, let them be stationary.
The Kusari Exiles (4.86) - Dab - 12-14-2011
Remember people, that the currently closed factions are tertiary factions. They are NOT storyline-centric. Gallia, the Exiles, Bretonia. Those are storyline-centric. Exiles is supposed to be an open faction for the same reason all of the Gallic factions are open factions. Because they are storyline-centric. They are all an integral part of the storyline, and the players' right to play out that part of the storyline should not be hampered.
The Kusari Exiles (4.86) - Pancakes - 12-14-2011
' Wrote:Good question.
I presume it's due to the SCRA's tech apparently being overpowered when combined with other equipment and the high grade of RP demanded by the SCRA.
Same goes for the Wilde/Nomads etc.
It's really down to the RP and IDs I think though. RP wise, it has to be good and all following the same line. ID wise, they are basically able to shoot everything.
Worth considering opening them up.
The Ronin are the KNF, just smaller.
They cannot kill everyone. Their RP will be well..KNF RP really.
They are also one of the most interesting and important factions in 4.86, simply due to who they are and the role they play.
They aren't aliens and aren't really open to about 5000 different opinions on how they should construct their entire society. (Nommie reference)
They don't need to fly battleships. They have 5, let them be stationary.
SCRA ID can only freely use SCRA tech. The OP combo thing is quite invalid, really. Higher standards of RP? I can put that with ANY faction.
Wilde/Nomad completely, I agree. Far too many chances for abuse, but why not create an ID for each of them that permit usage of only certain VHF (as an example) and guns? Really, why limit people that want to RP wilde indie from doing that? (I would refer to nomads too, but they already have such ID).
The Kusari Exiles (4.86) - Pancakes - 12-14-2011
' Wrote:Remember people, that the currently closed factions are tertiary factions. They are NOT storyline-centric. Gallia, the Exiles, Bretonia. Those are storyline-centric. Exiles is supposed to be an open faction for the same reason all of the Gallic factions are open factions. Because they are storyline-centric. They are all an integral part of the storyline, and the players' right to play out that part of the storyline should not be hampered.
Aha, nomads are not storyline-centeric?
Not to mention that Ronin are not HUGE army. They are simply numerous enough to make Bretonia consider them worthy to ally with. They are not centric part of the storyline.
And again, you guys didn't answer my question. If Ronin was open to all, you really think that the already half-dead kusari would have ANY RP in it? since I don't.
The Kusari Exiles (4.86) - Zelot - 12-14-2011
anyway, to cut off alot of this fighting, I will state it this way, the only way I am going to open the faction is if the admin team demands it. Now, we can move on to other things to talk about with the faction.
Now, I do take argument with the idea that the RP of this will just be KNF rp. This is a different faction going to be made up of former KNF and others, but the whole situation is different, so it is hard to think that it is just some generic KNF rp.
The Kusari Exiles (4.86) - Unseelie - 12-14-2011
Have you thought much about the supply side for this faction?
I've read that its getting some bad loans from Bretoia in this thread, and that there's some thought at the outset that the Gaians will support them.
But you have five battleships, ten cruisers, twenty five gunboats, "some" fighter wings. You've the Earth Fleet, all cut off in the hinder worlds, and nothing like Pell, if you'll take an analagy from a completely different universe.
The supply side of this mess is very, very, very interesting, and could be a great struggle to dedicate time to. Moreover, it has so much potential to change the people involved. Proud KNF, suddenly without supply. deprivation, recycling, fights, I have no idea how you want to run it, or how much thought you've given it. I'd love to see it.
My gut feeling is that it cannot be pretty.