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+--- Thread: Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs (/showthread.php?tid=77193)
Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs - Chico - 04-02-2012
Recruitment?
We don't really do it. I am here to have fun and I want all the Family to have fun as well.
If I can't compete, I don't bother. Theres no fun in flying my ship into the sun so why should I continue to do it?
You have to believe you can win, even if it's just a small victory (kill the guy you are shooting at, even if the other five battleships are gonna get you). If thats not there, even Leonides would not have stood.
Training and skills?
"Chico Benitez - Bloody awful pilot" says it all.
Nerfs and balances?
In my opinion, too many too fast, not done properly and the people responsible aren't open to discussion and haven't been for a long time.
Tech?
You can't blame tech alone but looking at some of the combinations I've fought against, you can't help but suggest it forms a large part.
Motivation?
I am privileged to have flown both with and against some very good pilots who typed more RP and gave better experiences than I get in a week these days. Fun. Laughing when Miguel Shephardi held off half the RoS and 101st having lost both wings and burning across the battlefield for a good 15 minutes while typing silly messages. That was motivation enough back then.
These days luckily for me, theres lots of motivation within the team and they keep coming up with ideas. Long may it continue (Kudos to the Wilde who tore me up early the other night).
Finally, I don't have a particular issue with the Hessians, the RHA or otherwise. I don't believe the issues corsairs are having are 'Hessian' based so I'm not sure what this thread is about.
I believe the issues to be 'player' based. Yet another diversion I suppose.
Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs - Not Espi - 04-02-2012
well. i remember times when shooting RHA was fun. and i died all the time - who cares? the pvp was enjoyable...
... and then they started shieldrunning.
Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs - Prysin - 04-02-2012
' Wrote:Ok first of all, have you even flown the Thor in a battle? As in, while being shot at? Try it, then do the same with a Cutlass and a Praet and then come back and tell me same thing with a straight face.
Second, I don't want to restrict Corsair battleships to their home systems. I like when Corsairs raid with a whole fleet, because it gives us a reason to log our own mixed fleet. I am perfectly fine with seeing Corsair battleships in space, and my first reaction certainly isn't "oh those ganking wankers" or whatever.
The only reason I cry foul is when people try to hypocritically reduce the Hessian ID ZoI while not looking at their own actions in any way, that's when I mention the Corsair ZoI. I do not actually want this ZoI to be reduced, be it for Corsair caps or not.
Seriously, instead of trying to force ID changes, just leave it be and play the game. I hope to get raided in Omega-5 by Corsairs sometimes, be it caps or fighters or (preferably) both. I think all is fine as it is dev wise and ID wise. It's just the players that should stop trying to restrict each others privileges because they think that will somehow fix bad blood when it wont, and it will just create more bad blood in fact.
yes ive flown the Thor in battle, it is a long time since i did, however. Used to have a hessian on Disco UK and on DoD.
Cutlass, its too hyped, its just barely faster then the old Falcata, which i flew ALOT. Being bigger yet more slender then the Falcata. Cutlass aint that great overall, and CANNOT be compared with Thor/Praet as your comparing a light medium bomber against two heavy bombers. Which is a POINTLESS discussion.
Light mediums is in their own way superior, but totally useless in anti cap compability to heavy bombers. FYI i spendt most my time on disco in either a Falcata, Pytho, Moray, Havoc, Berglemir or Upholder.
The Thor should be balanced towards the ever OP Berglemir, i assume. A bomber that it is impossible to balance anything against without making it equally OP.
The Thor IS sluggish, but in a different way then Praet.
As for ID restrictions, your on the Dev team, in the "infocard" section i believe, yes? Then you may be familiar with quite a few rumors from 4.85 and 4.86 stating that gamma being impenetrable to enemies.
Be it Hessians, OC, Core, BHG or SCRA. I really dont think any faction has the "power" to push into the respective factions home system. Just as i dont think anything should be able to get NEAR Vogtland in Dresden.
The issue aint the hessians, but what the hessians among others contribute to. Given the fact that the hessians provide the biggest issue due to their overall skill and equipment being better then your average corsair, they are sadly the ones needed to take the first step towards a solution.
One solution would be the RHA telling its indies to concentrate on Rheinland. Its not a surefire solution, and as such, not a "viable" strategy.
The most efficient solution would be to restrain the Hessian ID from entering Gamma itself. The second largest issue for the corsairs is Rorries, but Rorries dont have their own ID, and as such, cannot be restricted in any way. This is why removing the hessians from intruding, may seem so unfair, while in reality, its basically the only "non-powergaming" solution feasible at this stage.
And since i saw some interesting chatlogs were you yourself, blodo, stated that the RHA got orders to concentrate on Rheinland and leave gamma alone, i do not see how this would negatively affect the Official faction roleplay at this point.
You said yourself that you wanted to have battles in O5, well, its common knowledge that if you hang around an location long enough, your enemies will come. Maybe not as many as raiding gamma itself, but knowing how CR did it, its sure to work due to the excessive OORP hatred this game has going on.
As a reminder, CR/IMG only need to ENTER Tau 37 to cause a large OC fleet to amass JUST to pewpew them, regardless of the number of CR/IMG
Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs - AeternusDoleo - 04-02-2012
' Wrote:Nerfs and balances?'mma have to call you out on this one Chico. Not sure who you mean by "people responsible" but I'm definately open to discussion. Just get me on Skype. 4.85 saw lots of whining about the Solarosiris. We fixed that. And suddenly the Sairs have -nothing- else?
In my opinion, too many too fast, not done properly and the people responsible aren't open to discussion and haven't been for a long time.
Tech?
You can't blame tech alone but looking at some of the combinations I've fought against, you can't help but suggest it forms a large part.
As for the tech combinations... I'm not happy with those either, but that's the rules we play under. Grab a squadron of FA bombers and Black Dragons to drive the point home that such stuff runs both ways, I suppose. Black Dragon / 2 codes / 2 Tizzies / 2 Sallies remains a very heavy hitter, at I believe 90% core come update 4.
Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs - farmerman - 04-02-2012
' Wrote:As for the tech combinations... I'm not happy with those either, but that's the rules we play under. Grab a squadron of FA bombers and Black Dragons to drive the point home that such stuff runs both ways, I suppose. Black Dragon / 2 codes / 2 Tizzies / 2 Sallies remains a very heavy hitter, at I believe 90% core come update 4.
Time for a Sallie Chameleon perhaps!?
Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs - Prysin - 04-02-2012
' Wrote:'mma have to call you out on this one Chico. Not sure who you mean by "people responsible" but I'm definately open to discussion. Just get me on Skype. 4.85 saw lots of whining about the Solarosiris. We fixed that. And suddenly the Sairs have -nothing- else?
As for the tech combinations... I'm not happy with those either, but that's the rules we play under. Grab a squadron of FA bombers and Black Dragons to drive the point home that such stuff runs both ways, I suppose. Black Dragon / 2 codes / 2 Tizzies / 2 Sallies remains a very heavy hitter, at I believe 90% core come update 4.
does not that underline the entire point of sair equipment being sub-par compared to their enemies?
Basically what your saying here is; Yes your tech may not be as good, so use someone else's tech instead then.
I beg your pardon, but if you understand that our tech does not match up to the Odin, Sabre, Osprey, Nammu, Manta or Eagle. Does not that prove the point that a large portion of the sair playerbase has been "crying" about since the release of 4.86?
There is no denying it, 4.85 Osiris was OP as hell. It would perform nearly as good against caps with a anti snub setup as most anti cap setups would.
I can reason with that.
Mjolnir created a thread shortly after the mod update 1, stating the changes of the pulse weapons power-change. But it is incorrect, as you now need 1 more shot with the tizona to down a VHF class 10 shield (1 tizona constantly fired at an stationary target).
You say its just 1 shot, well, 1 shot less damage does mean it got nerfed. Its a minute nerf, but it IS a nerf.
Salamanka efficiency DID get nerfed, no point in even arguing about it.
The only positive change in this update is that most codes were made into 600/600 instead of the old 600/699 speed/range. Making codes better synced with corsair pulses. Non-the-less, if our own technology is not up to the task, does not that call for a revision of the balancing? If not, what arguments does the BALANCE TEAM, as in Mjolnir, have to justify such changes given the alterations done to Osiris, Legate and Praefect during the turret split.
Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs - Madvillain - 04-02-2012
' Wrote:'mma have to call you out on this one Chico. Not sure who you mean by "people responsible" but I'm definately open to discussion. Just get me on Skype. 4.85 saw lots of whining about the Solarosiris. We fixed that. And suddenly the Sairs have -nothing- else?
As for the tech combinations... I'm not happy with those either, but that's the rules we play under. Grab a squadron of FA bombers and Black Dragons to drive the point home that such stuff runs both ways, I suppose. Black Dragon / 2 codes / 2 Tizzies / 2 Sallies remains a very heavy hitter, at I believe 90% core come update 4.
this tech discussion resulting in the conclusion that sairs should get a oorp ship+setup is going beyond silly.
Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs - AeternusDoleo - 04-02-2012
When your enemies come with idiotic combis and you can't be arsed to confront them with puretech? Sure, use equally idiot combis yourself. Heck, I was a strong advocate of a largely redfielded techlist, with 50% powernerfs for freelancers on all but civvy tech. That'd have put the kybosh on this entire thing. And the tons of "Pirate ID" gunboats we're seeing all over Sirius (Ascos in Rheinland and Gamma. I mean. W.T.F.?)
The playerbase wanted differently. This is the ruleset the SERVER wanted, so yea, play within the rules and do what you like. If that means abandoning the Titan as a combat craft, so be it. I bloody warned that these exotic tech combis would start causing trouble still. Yea, I'm annoyed that people are now whining about it, ESPECIALLY when there's ways to fight fire with fire within the rules. And when everyone's had enough, THEN we can nerf everyone into the craft they're supposed to be in ACCORDING TO THEIR DESIRED ROLE.
As for the sair ships, personally I'd upscale that Titan to SHF, signifying it's role as a heavily armored, sluggish fighter designed to deliver pain and lots of it. Then bump the Gladiator to VHF (axe one torp slot for another class 10 gun, add one additional class 10 gun slot somewhere) and be done with it - much like what was done to the Rogue line. Everyone wins: Sairs get a multipurpose fighter ideal for bombing and fighter support duty in the Titan - ideal as the heavy hitter in piracy packs since the Praetorian isn't something to write home about (good bomber, but not a great bomber). The underused Gladiator, sluggish enough for a VHF, becomes one. With some extra shielding and firepower that craft should be about right.
But that's just me. *shrug*
Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs - Rodnas - 04-02-2012
Pure win right here:
Quote:As for the sair ships, personally I'd upscale that Titan to SHF, signifying it's role as a heavily armored, sluggish fighter designed to deliver pain and lots of it. Then bump the Gladiator to VHF (axe one torp slot for another class 10 gun, add one additional class 10 gun slot somewhere) and be done with it - much like what was done to the Rogue line. Everyone wins: Sairs get a multipurpose fighter ideal for bombing and fighter support duty in the Titan - ideal as the heavy hitter in piracy packs since the Praetorian isn't something to write home about (good bomber, but not a great bomber). The underused Gladiator, sluggish enough for a VHF, becomes one. With some extra shielding and firepower that craft should be about right.
It would stay true to the current philosophy of "heavy" Corsairs, gives more options to the players and as a bonus would be surely easier to incoorporate then let's say completly new models.
Another technical thing would eb the development of a second line of Corsair guns-maybe with newbie friendly fast projectiles so pure tech users (as there are many with us overly proud Corsairs) get one side option?
For the non-technical part, aka the more important one in this thread: being halfways new to disco and being a generally positive fellow i think way too many people have their heads wrapped around bias and oorp player hatred. And that's the stuff that creates a vicious circle right here. We play a game together- it should be everyones responsibilty to provide fun to others, not only to yourself. This is a question of your mindset while playing.
What is needed is more cooperation like events or in game "notices" (hey sairs/hessians, we want to raid...how about that, can you get x ships up). Things like that.
Also, jumping to the other side of the fence is a very good idea i think- i will do so soon™
=>play the game, have fun,give and try not to think everyone is up and against you would be my summary
Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs - Govedo13 - 04-02-2012
' Wrote:For the non-technical part, aka the more important one in this thread: being halfways new to disco and being a generally positive fellow i think way too many people have their heads wrapped around bias and oorp player hatred. And that's the stuff that creates a vicious circle right here. We play a game together- it should be everyones responsibilty to provide fun to others, not only to yourself. This is a question of your mindset while playing.This is indeed very valid point, but sadly you can see how much personal hate is moving to my way for only saying obvious fact that the 4.86 corsair stuff is not a right match to the corsair enemy stuff-
' Wrote:just full of lies...that posts
' Wrote:stuff you're pulling out of your behind.
Sadly you cannot expect much more also referred to in-game actions too. As you can see I "lie" about the nerfed guns. :rolleyes:So there is little to no point to find agreement and common ground with such people.