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+--- Thread: Who can use civilian guns? (/showthread.php?tid=8448)
Who can use civilian guns? - Zelot - 05-11-2008
I guess since this sort of started with me, It's time to have my say. I only read to page 6 so if someone made these points already I am sorry.
First, Samura is not hostile to the Corsairs, they are activly supporting and arming the FA and Hogosha, who are close allies of the Corsairs. The RP is that Samura is funneling weapons to the FA,(Debs from Osaka) to support them, and the FA takes some of those and gives them to TBH as part of the Arms deal they have.
TBH RP'ed a deal with the CR for the use of TigerSharks, as CR and TBH are Allies, it's the exact same thing as Outcasts using Blood Dragon ships.
Finaly, I am really pissed that I got sanctioned, as no one ever said what I was doing was wrong. If they admins want to make civi guns just for certain factions thewy should say so, and not have the first offical mention of it be a sanction.
Who can use civilian guns? - Equinox - 05-11-2008
' Wrote:Blaming a group of people for no reason in a provocational way ain't the attitude we want to see here.. TBH have been sticking to the Titan, which is the crappiest VHF in the mod in my opinion, for ages. They could well purchase Raven's Talons instead of completely sticking to the Titan. Decurion still needs tweaking so using some Tigersharks if they have the RP background for it seems fair enough. Not a horde of em maybe but some of them could do fine. However, as for shield busters I would stick to the rapier and tizona line. But this civilian shieldbusters and weapons issue still seems to be open for debate and I will rest the remaining part of my assertion for now.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I do find it funny that all those months people have been using that ship and those weapons and when the Outcasts where beating the Corsairs nothing was said, but when the people in those ships trained and got better in them and started actually winning those fights thats when the problem started. And that doesn't mean im calling the admin biased, as im pretty sure the Outcasts complained when they noticed there sabers where getting knocked out by the only light fighter remotely close to to in RP for a Corsair (Decurian turns slower than a vhf and the other ones bugged).
And I love it how everyone bashes the Brotherhood to being complete PvP whores, they only want the best equipment and ships! when 95% of our fleet fly's the Titan 95% of the time when its one of the worst vhf's out there, the rest either flying a LH or a bomber, we only use Corsair weapons on them, the only time Civ weaps where used are on about 5 LFs.
So where do we stand? we have 2 light fighters, one turns as slow as a Saber (thats a light fighter where talking about) and the other is bugged to hell, but we cant fly a fighter from a neutral faction whose player faction we are on good terms with? and let me make this clear this was only until our own was fixed so it has jack **** to do with winning, because if thats what the Brotherhood is about we would have switched out of Titans along time ago and tried some other ships out there much like other factions did and still do.
Also let me make this clear I don't even have a light fighter but I have faction mates that do due to no fault of there own and they end up getting sanctioned for it?.
What happened to admins warning someone before sanctioning? sanctioned for an unwritten rule seems abit off to me somehow.
Who can use civilian guns? - Laowai - 05-11-2008
Ok... while not being a PVP person in anyway so i know nothing about ship loadouts and weapon effectiveness... i did want to comment on this thread. I have noticed that for as long as i have been here it has seem to have been the accepted norm amongst everyone that civilian weapons were useable for all.
As an admin, Hoodlum has the prerogative of ruling on this, fair enough.
But i would say that these weapons rules are so vague and open to interpretation and or whim that this could have possibly been settled without a sanction, rather a thread or pm. And i think this ruling might leave a lot of players open to sanction right now, and not just corsairs, if people are using RP like alliances or deals or friendships to get their hands on things.
However
The TBH players have AMPLE Role play reasons to be able to procure civilian weapons, and i can find these reasons in the faction info threads which themselves are ADMIN APPROVED:
Examples:
FROM SCRA FACTION POST
Weapons allowed are as follows: Civilian/Zoner, Nomads (max. 2 per ship), CODENAMEs, Xenos and IMG (limited use). We also have a stockpile of Corsair arms from a previous arms deal. Contact Miroslav Baranova or Ares for access, do not fetch Corsair guns from Corsair bases.
Is it not equally conceivable then that the TBH could have left over civilian weapons from this same deal? how long have they been mounting these weapons? How are the SCRA obtaining them now if they are still using them - ie, how long does a stockpile last? Is this Role play reason any more of a stretch than something the TBH can come up with?
FROM FARMERS ALLIANCE FACTION POST:
Approved Weapons: All FA, Hogosha, Gaian, Civilian are approved. Arms Deal: TBH
Where do they get them from? From a Corsairs point of view, it really doesn't matter where the farmers alliance gets them from, but that they can get them from the farmers alliance. Dabs point before about buying from "allies who buy from allies" here is relevant, however, it can still be explained.
FROM CR FACTION LIST:
1. All IMG weapons
2. Corsair shield busters
3. Codename weapons
4. Nomad weapons - limited
5. Civilian and zoner weapons
6. BHG weapons - limited
7. Any missile or torpedo
8. Mini razor
Again, possible to procure through an ally - and prior to this sanction no one would have questioned that i think.
The point is, if the players can Role play, and reasonably Role play a way of procuring these weapons, which are civilian weapons and so not like Outcast specialized weapons or antyhing else, but weapons available from many different bases which, granted the corsairs can't land on but their allies can... and if its done in Role play..... whats the issue?
FROM THE 101ST ALLOWED WEAPONS ON FACTION THREAD:
Weapons Dictated by Individual Roleplay
My point is, its allowed, Admins have approved this as a method of getting weapons.
Basically, the rules concerning weapons need to be much more black and white in the next mod, this is WAY too ambiguous.
Who can use civilian guns? - bluntpencil2001 - 05-11-2008
' Wrote:Is it not equally conceivable then that the TBH could have left over civilian weapons from this same deal? how long have they been mounting these weapons? How are the SCRA obtaining them now if they are still using them - ie, how long does a stockpile last? Is this Role play reason any more of a stretch than something the TBH can come up with?Well... we saw that the arms deal was going south, so we bought loads of Del Cids and hid them away. When they run out, they run out. We don't buy them and are very strict on this. I don't think that TBH were gaining access to our arms in a symmetrical deal, however. Also, they didn't think to stockpile otherwise.
On another note, the civilian guns we buy are not from hostile bases, although we do have a few civilian guns like this from the Unioner arms depots that we raided when Workers' Front folded. That consisted of about 3 or 4 Debilitators and a heap of useless crap, really. Lots of codenames though.
Who can use civilian guns? - Jihadjoe - 05-11-2008
' Wrote:Yet "bash the Corsairs because they defeated us" .
This is NOT what this is about. Could you just let it go. The score at the end of our fights were equal, and frankly there are people who are far interested in other things beside pwning the other side here.
This whole thing ais about what is and what is not roleplay. The SA knwo about this, they accept it and have openly said that it isn't great, but until there is a replacement for THEIR MAIN WEAPON things will stay as they are.
The Corsairs have shieldbusters already, yet they use others which are not in roleplay for a 20% gain in performance. This is the problem.
Who can use civilian guns? - Equinox - 05-11-2008
If its ok for the Outcasts to get Debs from the Lane hackers there allies why is it not ok for the Corsairs to get them from the farmers alliance there allies?
Who can use civilian guns? - globalplayer-svk - 05-11-2008
ok, fresh news. me,mjolnir nad ugur change the tiger sharks for arwings. and you know what happend? all 3 have bug active now. 3 from 3. we make some test fights with mjolnir and you know how bad you feel, when you see nothing on your shield( when tizona hit you,you see the animation on shield) and then only that sweet voice, shield down ? and the same with hull,no hits,no sounds,no effects, only your hull is gone? is it more fair? you know how bad you can dodging when you have lf on tail and you can not see where are his shots? (when they miss you,you see them left or right or somewhere, in normal situation). will it be better for you guys? fight again ghost projectiles?????
Who can use civilian guns? - Jihadjoe - 05-11-2008
' Wrote:If its ok for the Outcasts to get Debs from the Lane hackers there allies why is it not ok for the Corsairs to get them from the farmers alliance there allies?
I wasn't aware they were sold by the FA, however the corsairs have a perfectly good (infact awesome) shieldbusting gun of their own, they should use it exclusively, and in the next mod we should get a lvl 8 corsair shieldbuster.
Who can use civilian guns? - mjolnir - 05-11-2008
Outcasts have a perfectly good (in fact awesome) torp-mounted shield buster so they should use it exclusively.
You saw just yesterday how effective it can be.
Instead they use Debilitators.. or Paralyzers from Zoners...
Who can use civilian guns? - globalplayer-svk - 05-11-2008
hm, one idea, on forum was thread,that borderworld does mean outcast,so can we switch to scimitars ? they are sold on bundschuh base in frankfurt too.and bundschuh are not enemy of corsairs or yes ? will it be ok ?