+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Rules & Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Rules (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID? (/showthread.php?tid=8711)
Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID? - Akumabito - 05-23-2008
' Wrote:This is not about faction vs indy, this is about faction vs crappy roleplay that treads on our own roleplay. The enjoyment of one individual cannot come at the cost of a whole groups enjoyment.
You misrepresent what you are doing. You are not targeting one crappy rping individual, if you did that there would be nothing to discuss. You have targeted every indie outcast who flies a capital ship, and that's why your claims don't jibe with your actions.
This is simply a power play by your clan, nothing more. What else can it be given the complete lack of any evidence for a need for this indie bashing?
I've been playing freelancer for a long time, at a RP server that was around for years before this one started. Clan power plays are as old as freelancer. You feel you've earned the right to push people around because you've been here a while. I understand completely.
Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID? - sovereign - 05-23-2008
' Wrote:You misrepresent what you are doing. You are not targeting one crappy rping individual, if you did that there would be nothing to discuss. You have targeted every indie corsair who flies a capital ship, and that's why your claims don't jibe with your actions.
This is simply a power play by your clan, nothing more. What else can it be given the complete lack of any evidence for a need for this indie bashing?
I've been playing freelancer for a long time, at a RP server that was around for years before this one started. Clan power plays are as old as freelancer. You feel you've earned the right to push people around because you've been here a while. I understand completely.
Find me this indie bashing. Oh wait, it isn't there. They put their own stuff through the same tests, and that of the other factions as well. Seriously, find where they said something along the lines of "we hate indies". And Outcasts != Corsairs, btw, but I'll assume that's a typo.
We're all tired. Go to sleep everyone, come back tomorrow, and try to see things from the other's point of view, without telling yourself what that point of view is. That means EVERYONE, not just Akumabito, by the way. Myself included.
G'night.
Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID? - podcof - 05-23-2008
just today, i flew with 5 different indie's with detroyers, all went through the effort of RPing with the 101st, they spent at most 5 minutes doing so, and they were approved. so you can just throw your little indie bashing nonsense away.
Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID? - sovereign - 05-23-2008
' Wrote:just today, i flew with 5 different indie's with detroyers, all went through the effort of RPing with the 101st, they spent at most 5 minutes doing so, and they were approved. so you can just throw your little indie bashing nonsense away.
Thank you for sharing that. See? There is no problem with it. If you check the thread for registration, the person who got denied volunteered to sell their ship of their own free will. Now with this happy news in mind, it's sleepy time...
Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID? - Akumabito - 05-23-2008
' Wrote:Find me this indie bashing.
From my perspective it is. What you are saying is that I can't be trusted to properly fly an outcast cruiser if I so choose, because some other indie pissed the 101st off.
You're saying "jump through this hoop, or else"
I'm done, feel free to continue to insult and belittle me for not wanting to be forced to have to be part of the 101st if I chose someday to be an indy outcast.
I have run a clan on an RP server, albeit a humorous clan probably not well suited for here. I rp extensively with D&D, WoD and GURPS mainly and have characters that I have run for years. I don't come here for in depth RP because that not what FL is for me, I don't come here to be hassled for being an indie in a cap ship even though none of my caps are currently outcast, they are blood dragon, bounty hunter and bretonia, but all are indies, and all are RP'd according to their ID in a way consistent with the rules of the server.
If you see me doing something outside the rules, screenie it and report me. If you see me talking crap in system chat tell me to go to new york with all the other leet speak lol clowns, but don't hassle me when I come to have fun over something someone else did.
Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID? - Laowai - 05-23-2008
Not to contribute to the fun and excitement of all the flames that have been bouncing back and forth in this thread - But as the resident (self appointed) Union Rep for the Discovery Capwhore's Union you seriously didn't think i could stay out of this one did you?
So much fun happens when you're in a different timezone....
Firstly, this is for Eppy and the 101st lads.. i would like some clarification. I was under the impression, that a faction only had the ability to make enforceable laws within the system they had bought and paid for, which is the Guard system. I was under the impression that a factions right to enforce "laws" in this manner in whats called their ZOI was not admin approved or a Grey area. Now, i have no personal take on this, i'd just like to know what the rules are - if it is the case, then if you guys do enforce this in ZOI areas and not your guard area then you could be leaving yourselves open to sanctions.
I have always opposed the Corsairs doing something like this - as i am in indie capship player myself and my personal preference is that people be allowed to fly what they want, as long as they Role Play in it. If they seem to be having some difficulty Role Playing in game then the more established players or factions should lead by example in game and give them direction and/or inspire them to do it themselves. My personal take is that a faction shouldn't control or have say over what a player can use, but that being said, an indy player needs to realise that Role play is key - it is essential to being accepted by the community. Its why i have been accepted cap ships and all.
It is not unreasonable for players, faction or otherwise, to ask people to Role play on a Role play server.
I personally don't really think this is a "powergrab" but rather one take on how to guide players in the right direction - that effort in itself should be commended.
But it is easy to see how it could be construed as a powergrab - the point that was made that "a player has to RP the way the 101st wants you to" to qualify for a cap ship is actually a valid one. What if, a player does follow the steps laid down by the 101st, but they don't like the RP, or it doesn't fit with theirs' - will they deny the ship request in this case? My worry here is that, while the ability to control ship usage may be a Grey area in terms of server rules, the ability to control Role play is not, no one, at least no one who is not a server admin, can do that PERIOD.
I am not in favour of players being told what they can and cant do in terms of ship class, this has always been my position. However, i am in favour of measures in place to assist people in learning the craft of Role Playing - If this measure is just a rubber stamp to prove a player can Role Play, (even if that Role play isn't what a 101st player would do, but is conceivably what an Outcast would do) then "The Discovery Capwhore's Union" will give it tentative approval (:)) and monitor it closely.
(not that my approval matters obviously)
However, if the measure is purely to limit players access to cap ships, because the fighter and bomber pilots don't like them, and it is being done under the veneer of Role play, then we shall chant in the streets and picket your office buildings...... or something like that.
Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID? - mazdamack - 05-23-2008
All this because of the firestorm that (I think) i was the first to get involved in.
(yaaaaaaa me - takes a bow):yahoo:
i find it frustrating that i find out about this policy after the ship was purchased, and then when i do, and do what i think was at least a decent attempt to rp a solution. I worked hard for almost a month (irl) of nonstop cardi smuggling, got busted a few times near manhattan, and didnt try to dock at manhattan when the cops were chasing me (look at the firestorm started recently about that one). I earned most of the over 800 Million credits from smuggling. Thats why i felt justified in purchasing the ship. The char was a friend of the Outcasts and their guard, so why is it a problem. It seems to me that if all cap ships must be approved, they should be given out by offical factions similar to the way that thier pilots startup cash is given to them, so that not just anyone can buy them. Now i have to wase another week saving up money for my company to buy a new nice flagship. If the trade in weren't so bad, then this might not be an issue. Also i had no desire to make enemies of the outcasts (wanna keep it in rp, remember)
all of that was writetn before i read the 9 pages. i have been at work all day - (btw, is that some kind of record for 24 hours or so, 9 pages? man i hope so. and i though zapp and stone started a good one the other day about smugglers landing rights, but thas a whole nother topic, back on track here)
so after thinking about it all day (actually to be mroe honest i was LIVID, all i thought about all day, i know i have no life) and thinking about some previous things mentioned here - here is my opinion
1) - Until a player show that he is oorp in flying the cap ship (note to follow), he should be allowed to keep it.
2) - Players should be awarded their ships, not available for purchase where ever he can rp'ingly land
3) - I have no intent to go crazy with pvp in this thing, its kinda linited by the id anyway. My intent was simply to detract pirates (the BLS cant be everywhere all the time)(walk soft and carry a big stick, a REALLY big one.
4) - Seeing as i have the dreadnought now I cannot justify wasting all the money i spent on it(dont get me started on that again), I created a back story, and was more than willing to rp my offer to them. Yes, i was actually gonna pay them up to 20 billion credits over time and take prpbably less that profitabel routes to rp it all out (once again, i am here to rp)
5) - Someone earlier said something about it being a status symbol. Read my offer in the registration post. Thats exactally what it was going to be, besides my quiet, loud stick.
6) - side note - that little utility that they used to see i already have the ship, how oorp is that. I never denied having the ship, like i said i bout oit before i found out about this. i know the in game chat is kinda controversial (long range scanner, etc), but something like that really takes all the fun out of it. if they wanted to rp it out, they should have sent scouts after me or something like that.
7) - How come when i put an hour into working on my story, and do a nice post on it, i get rejected. I understand their rp reason, but come on, let us have some fun (once again restrice the sales of cap ship you dont want out there by some sort of software block). Eveyone else other indie who simply said "Im an Outcast to defend Malta. My shps name is X" got approved? Fair, balanced, and unobjective, i think not. I know they all had destroyers, and i am (or maybe was) willing to trade down, but not now after they simply put me on kos before giving me ample time to sell the ship for scrap.
8) - Back to number 1. Okay maybe the Dreadnought is a little bit too much, but a BS should not be.
and finally (I promise) . . .
To sum it all up in a short but complex sentence . . .
9) - If i can make friends with the Outcasts Guard enoguht to land on Corsica, buy the sip and fit it out rp style, and rp its flight well enough for the community standard (the 101st is not objective in this matter no matter what you tell me), and keep it all in server rules, I should be able to keep the ship
oh, i forget im so stoked (not stoned) about this whole thing i cant even think straight anymore. Time to go kill some Bounty hunter is my rouge Dreandought. It might be thhe last time i can do it in peace or before i get sanctioned, but i dont think it will go that far. If it does however, im sure this situation will be quickly resolved by the Admins. Part of me does hope for that. Not getting in trouble, but for a swift rules clarification. Oh please, oh PLEASE let Igliss or Fellow_Hoodlum read this in their uber busy days and clear some of this up. BTW - love this mod. I plan on making a donaation when my tax stimulus come ion next month.
Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID? - Laowai - 05-23-2008
' Wrote:All this because of the firestorm that (I think) i was the first to get involved in.
(yaaaaaaa me - takes a bow):yahoo:
It does seem a little weird - i read the thread where you posted your RP request and it did seem fine to me, nicely written and Role played. Of course the 101sts side would need to be represented here as to why they refused you - the RP reason about there being limited numbers and resources seems a little weak when you were intending to pay for it ON top of what you should, and also to gaurentee them supplies.
What does seem a little oorp is the refusal, the rejection of your additional payment and then if the ship is scrapped:
1) Firstly it was built, but outcasts, who you paid. So technically you have paid them money once. They profited.
2)You claim you offered to pay more on top of - what you had already paid to get the ship in the first place. If they refuse cold cash when they say that resources are strained that just doesn't make sense - as they would profit again.
3)If the ship is scrapped you then have a very strange situation - the man hours that it took to originally build are paid for, but essentially wasted. The additional payment was rejected, thus causing a further loss of income to the outcasts, and the ship is scrapped, thus making the whole affair a complete waste of resources and time - the scarcity of which was the reason for your refusal in the first place.
Curious.
Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID? - mazdamack - 05-23-2008
see my frutration in this matter. im also gonna let two more cats out of the bag on this
1) - after negotiation with a 101st member (who call my name as soon as i sighned on at malta, he was witing there) we have come to an agreement. How's that to say i got demoted to Destroyer Captain. Thinking about an rp event where i defect to the corsairs just becuse of this, but probably not gonna go that far.
2) - Im gonna do a story about this incident. Standby for more deatils. Its gonna be goooooooood too.
3) - I am still planning a major military strike against the 101st to 'liberate' one from their shipyards. Think 100 Million per pilot plus expences plus bonuses would be enough? Any really good merc with EXCELLENT RP SKILLS keep your eyes open in the employment office.
Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID? - mazdamack - 05-23-2008
Finished the story for global consideration. Its very close to the actual events that happend in game. it went kinda fast for just that reason.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16520