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+--- Thread: Rule 5.7 (/showthread.php?tid=10119)
Rule 5.7 - Eppy - 07-06-2008
Quote:5.7 A player who was killed in a PvP fight must not enter the system where the fight took place with any of the characters on his/her account(s) while the enemy (player or players involved in the fight) remains in the system, but no more than 4 hours.
If the player respawns in the same system, he/she must leave the system without engaging. Other players are not allowed to attack one who is leaving.
I don't know if anything to this extent has ever been proposed (bloody search engine:dry:), so bear with me.
As virtually everybody here has at some point realized, the wording of 5.7 presents some logistical problemsin that it designates entire systems as single zones. This obviously presents some problems; if a House Military or police force is defeated then we have some issues, because, by server rules, the Xenos could occupy the space over Manhattan for extended periods of time (not that they'd have the gall to do that, the XA is one of the best RP-wise factions on the server at the moment; their use here is as nothing but a hypothetical example) if they managed to destroy all present lawful craft (which they often do), and the LSF, LN and LPI would be evicted from their home system for four hours. The Planetary Defense Grid Manhattan should, by all rights, have, is not there, and by these rules the Xenos can camp Manhattan. Nothing stops them. The Xenos, in-RP, should be completely unable to capture Manhattan for any period of time. That's like a wing of Sopwith Camels trying to take on the United States Air Force circa 2008, over Nellis AFB. RP says it's impossible. Game mechanics and server rules allow it.
It would be even worse with the Liberty Rogues. If the LR managed to shoot down all available lawfuls they, too, can legally camp Manhattan. What's worse is, here it works both ways, because the LR's home base, Buffalo, is in the Badlands, a quick stroll up the lane from Manhattan. If the Liberty Lawfuls were to destroy all unlawful ships in NY they'd have control of the LR's home territory. This is because the two factions are based in the same system; their home space is the same in the eyes of the server rules. Corsairs can camp Malta, Outcasts can camp Crete, Hessians, Bundschuh, Unioneers and LWB can camp RM and RFP at New Berlin and vice versa for Vogtland, Bruchsal and (whatever their home bases are, I'm not familiar with these two), Gaians (and formerly Mollys) can camp the QCXX and BPA at New London, and vice versa at Islay and Arranmore. KNF can camp QCXX at NL and vice versa for NT, Rheinland can camp Manhattan and LN/LSF can camp NB. Hell, if Yuri got a chip on his shoulder and really tried the Keepers could conquer all of Sirius if they started recruiting like mad.
My solution? Changes to 5.7 (which is about to become a lot wordier), like so. Suggest your own, if you think it can be improved on, before we make it a formal request (probably denied, but hey, we have to try, then we can say 'I Told You So'):
- A clause stating that if an unlawful force manages to defeat all lawfuls around the lawful's home territory that they (the unlawfuls) must gracefully bow out and retreat to their space once the battle is complete; the four-hour rule does not apply.
- A clause stating that if a lawful force manages to destroy all unlawfuls around their home territory the lawfuls should retreat back to their own territory; the four-hour rule does not apply.
- A clause stating that if two warring lawfuls manage to defeat one or the other on one's home territory the victor should bow out and leave system. Four-hour rule does not apply.
- A clause stating that if an unlawful force defeats another unlawful force on either of their home territories, the victorious party should gracefully bow out and leave system.
- A clause stating that if a lawful and unlawful force share the same territory within the same system, both groups should retreat to their home territories within system and remain so for four hours.
Rule 5.7 - Fletcher - 07-06-2008
I say nay to this. If the Xenos beat all lawful craft for example. Credit them, they beat them in a fight. Your going to take away their pleasure of victory. They would probably spread propaganda above Manhattan anyway. I can't see them staying there for 4 hours. I'd get bored.
If lawfuls defeat all unlawfuls near their base, same as above well done. Its a challenge.
When it comes to say Outcasts and Corsairs warring, they always fight for territory. Should Corsairs win over Malta, well done again, it would be a hard fight. They have every right to stay there, its a victory and again they probably would already leave unless they RP'd a reason to stay.
Finally if unlawful and lawful share same territory e.g. NY, leave it as it is. THEY WERE BEATEN and in RP ejected from their ship or whatever. I just leave the system or log onto another character.
Overall I say leave it as it is.
Rule 5.7 - Eppy - 07-06-2008
Quote:I say nay to this. If the Xenos beat all lawful craft for example. Credit them, they beat them in a fight. Your going to take away their pleasure of victory. They would probably spread propaganda above Manhattan anyway. I can't see them staying there for 4 hours. I'd get bored.
If lawfuls defeat all unlawfuls near their base, same as above well done. Its a challenge.
When it comes to say Outcasts and Corsairs warring, they always fight for territory. Should Corsairs win over Malta, well done again, it would be a hard fight. They have every right to stay there, its a victory and again they probably would already leave unless they RP'd a reason to stay.
Finally if unlawful and lawful share same territory e.g. NY, leave it as it is. THEY WERE BEATEN and in RP ejected from their ship or whatever. I just leave the system or log onto another character.
Overall I say leave it as it is
They say a picture says a thousand words:
![[Image: missile-defense-launch.jpg]](http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/missile-defense-launch.jpg)
![[Image: missile_mer.jpg]](http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/france/slbm/missile_mer.jpg)
![[Image: china_space_missile_launch.gif]](http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/china_space_missile_launch.gif)
![[Image: mamali-missiles.jpg]](http://themiddleeastinterest.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/mamali-missiles.jpg)
There's 4000 right there. I have three more:
Planetary Defense Grid.
All the "They WORKED for it!" talk is unrealistic. Malta has huge racks of missile silos sitting on the ground topped with megaton-range warheads just waiting for a flotilla of Osirises to come into orbit. Imagine what Manhattan must have. As for a victory trophy, I should think that a post in the message dump with death messages attached is plenty good enough. The Xenos do not need a group picture in front of Manhattan. Not unless that picture involves massive nuclear warheads flying at them from the planet's surface.
EDIT: Sorry to be cynical, but you get sick of being camped. If there's a Corsair Dreadnought in the orbit of your home planet don't you think it'd be doing more than just taking pictures? Pillage, Rape, Burn, Apocalypse. It's called metagaming, and, to be blunt, it sucks.
Rule 5.7 - ProwlerPC - 07-06-2008
I would agree with Epyon as all it takes is a moment when oneside is outnumbered becauseless players logged in. Even if Skype is used the initial camping has begun and any response from other logging in will end an outnumbered response.
Rule 5.7 - Fletcher - 07-06-2008
I'm not saying metagaming is fun or anything like that, and camping isn't fun (for the recipient) but if you got beaten, you got beaten. Thats the end of that one.
Talking of planetary defense grids, just slap millions of weapon platforms in orbit, I doubt you'd want to waste any land. Especially on Manhattan. The whole defense grid thing has been talked of before I think, and I don't think it got anywhere. In my experience I have not heard once in my life in-game "You may have beaten us, but our nuclear defense grid will finish you!! You must leave!" I have never seen an RP on these lines. Would you listen to that if YOU were camping Crete after a hard fought victory? I doubt it.
RP wise, I doubt there would be nuclear weapons on Manhattan to defend from spaceships think of Trenton and Newark and the trade lanes? Not to mention the docking ring, think of the collateral. I would imagine cruise missiles of sorts. Or just call in reinforcements.
While pictures speak a thousand words, I prefer to see the words.
EDIT:
' Wrote:I would agree with Epyon as all it takes is a moment when oneside is outnumbered becauseless players logged in. Even if Skype is used the initial camping has begun and any response from other logging in will end an outnumbered response.
Being outnumbered is never fun, especially if your allies logged out. I agree that by the time you Skype for help, its already too late. Isn't that a sort of strategy by the enemy? Surprise attack?
Lets picture this: 6 titans and a Corsair gunboat 'invade' Omicron Alpha. There are 2 Sabres and 1 Falcata. Near enough 2/1 odds. Should the Corsairs win, and camp Malta, then the Outcasts call for help. Too late for help, call before battle if possible. The Corsairs got the jump on the Outcasts. Uh how do I put this now... Whining about numbers is one thing, doing something about it is another. Its easy to say I know. You can't just scream on the comms "You outnumbered us, let use leave with our reinforcements to fight you again! Fairly" Some would say yes while most would say no. But you HAVE to let them leave server rules and all. But asking for a rematch would be an interesting idea, but you'd have to get RP right and ask them not to file reports for early 're-engagements'.
Man I'm typing a lot. I hope my message gets through.
*Sigh* I probably sound like a real grumpy sod right now. Sorry about that, buts thats my God honest opinion.
Rule 5.7 - Akumabito - 07-06-2008
The whole defense grid thing is kind of silly, if allowed soon people will claim to have defense grids everywhere and no ID can leave it's ZOI.
You have a docking ring with guns. That's what you have. Deal.
Rule 5.7 - chovynz - 07-06-2008
I would change that rule to,
"After PVP death or fleeing (engaging cruise to run away any distance), you may enter or stay in the system you died in.
You may not engage the person who killed you with any of your characters on any of your accounts for up to 4 hours.
You may not join a group in the same system that is engaging the person who killed you for up to 4 hours. (if you are in a separate system to the person who killed you, grouping is fine.)
You may not contact them by PM for up to 4 hours unless it is to;
1)congratulate them on their kill or
2)to be friendly."
This allows normal people and operations to continue, but keeps the two people separate.
Rule 5.7 - Horon - 07-06-2008
I was always under the impression that players must not encounter someone who has killed them for 4 hours. An example was, if someone killed you in a particular system, and the person who killed you, left the system, you could return to the system. It also seemed to me that if you absolutely had to be in the system, like if its a one way system to another one, you had better not even pick the winning player up on radar, or you are in major trouble. However, it seems that the rules have been solidified, without me noticing.
Hyung: The only problem with that is if you are going to warn them about a sanction report. I think it would be safe to say: Only one PM after death may be sent to the winning player. Or the losing player for that matter. From each other I mean.
EDIT: When I said one way system, I meant if there was no other RP way to get to your destination. However, since that rarely occurs, then nevermind that little portion.
Rule 5.7 - Angelfire - 07-06-2008
I agree with Eppy on this one. (on all of the points).
Whatever the RP justification may be for Camping an enemy planet, there will always be players who were not a part of that conflict who dock and undock from that planet.
It would not make RP sense either for the victor to make exceptions as to which enemy may pass and which may not.
As far as game dynamic goes, you have won. Now 'return with the spoils'. Go back to your home planet or move on to the next target.
If we allow planet camping, we'll inspire Cap Hoaring. 'There are no interplanetary defenses, so we'll make our own...'
Just my thoughts on that one.
Rule 5.7 - obnoxious1 - 07-06-2008
I also would have to agree with Eppy to some extent.
But instead of 1 group leaving system gracefully, why not lower the 4 hour to 1 hour if it was losers home area.
Thus giving fair time for winning group to spread propaganda, pirate, what have you untill 1 hour is up & defenders could "rally" a counter attack?
(Example, Xenos go in, clear out Manhattan. They get to hold it for an hour to do as they will (putting planet under siege) after hour is up, Liberty forces can attack again to defend their system)
Just a suggestion adding to Epp's idea