+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+--- Thread: Rheinland Stronger than Disco Gives Credit (/showthread.php?tid=108703)
Rheinland Stronger than Disco Gives Credit - SupcommMonroee - 12-13-2013
Rheinland is a total trainwreck inRP in Disco. Here, I will prove that isn't so true. With their vast industry and mineral wealth, Rheinland was able to support a great fleet.
I will tally the number of ships shown / assumed to have in the Freelancer SP campaign, but I will make a few small assumptions. Additionally, I may over or underestimate the presence of ships due to small lapse in memory, but this shall be mostly accurate.
Ships you are forced to destroy, such as the vessels you engage with Kress' men, and all of the gunboats you duel with up to the point where you leave Kyoto Base to find von Claussen will not be counted as part of the fleet due to their destruction.
These ships are assumed to have survived due to their presence in a non-conflict area:
1 Rheinland Battleturtle (RBT) at New Berlin, 6 Rheinland Gunboats (RGB), 2 Rheinland Cruisers (RNC)
4 RBT, 16 RNC, 0 RGB at Frankfurt gate.
4 RBT, 16 RNC, 0 RGB at New Berlin gate in Frankfurt.
2 RBT, 2 RNC, 2 RGB at Mannheim
2 RBT, 4 RNC, 8 RGB at Mainz
That adds up to 13 RBT, 40 RNC, and 16 RGB. I am going to assume that there was force symmetry in the rest of New Berlin and the western end of Rheinland, so I will double this amount. That gives us 26 RBT, 80 RNC, and 32 RGB that most probably survived.
These ships are assumed to have existed / survived because their destruction was possible but not required or their existence was heavily implied:
Northern Fleet in Sigma-13 (Kusari invasion), at least 4 RBT, 8 RNC, 0? RGB.
Bretonian invasion fleet, likely identical to the Northern Fleet
Libertonian invasion fleet, likely identical to the Northern Fleet
So, we basically have the Northern Fleet x 3. That gives us 12 RBT, 24 RNC, and 0? RGB.
Adding that with our previous totals for near-confirmed survivals, we have 38 RBT, 104 RNC, and 32? RGB. I will also add the battleship bases present in Disco 4.87 (Altenburg, Karlsruhe, Koblenz, Moselle, Regensburg, Schwerin, Strausberg, Westfalen, and Westphalia, 9)
Final total: 47 RBT, 104 RNC, an 32? RGB. I assume the gunboat numbers are much greater due to their heavy presence in attacks against Trent during the campaign. However, I will not make estimates regarding their number. I will only assume they are extremely plentiful.
Even if this math isn't perfect (and I'm sure it isn't), Rheinland obviously had an enormous fleet, and more importantly, a colossal economy to sustain it. That's why I say that Rheinland is severely underpowered in Disco.
Edit: These numbers are, in my opinion, very conservative estimates.
RE: Rheinland Stronger than Disco Gives Credit - Kazinsal - 12-13-2013
Rheinland suffered great losses in the Nomad War, then was on and off warring with Liberty for at least a decade. Now they've got an economy that's tanked more than the US's did in 1929 and their shipyards are building stuff for Kusari to help pay off their debts.
They don't have a powerful fleet. They barely have the ability to sustain one.
RE: Rheinland Stronger than Disco Gives Credit - Zayne Carrick - 12-13-2013
Count, that every battleship except for Westfalen was destroyed to the end of SP
RE: Rheinland Stronger than Disco Gives Credit - Pavel - 12-13-2013
Rheinland indeed is mineral granary of Sirius, something many Disco players often forget. It also isn't clone of German 3rd Reich, but sadly it was portrayed by law enforcement factions like that for years, so people also have twisted imagination of Rheinland RP and go "da hell" when someone tells them it's not nazi-like police state.
However, infested Rheinland fleet got totally wrecked during Nomad War, and while Rheinland industry and mineral resoruces are vast (thanks to Interspace ban I'd expect troubles recently with conducting business in Rheinland...), but objectively speaking even the largest shipyard in Sirius, The Ring/Oder complex, cannot produce battleships and hundreds of lesser ships like they were fighters.
Rheinland portrayed as a Sirian House with second strongest navy, losing the war with Liberty but able to somehow fight might of Liberty Navy in Hudson/Bering by the lore, instead of desperatively entrenching in Hamburg, is just stupid.
I could understand around dozen of battleships was produced in twenty years between vanilla Freelancer and Disco, what naturally would mean RM is more snub-oriented faction a'la GMG, but spamming heavy warships is just meh.
There's also Bretonia casus, Bretonia was the least affected by Nomads, it wasn't engaged in war like Kusari, Liberty and Rheinland were, yet what happened to Bretonia in Disco? They lose war after war, first against Kusari (Kusarian fleet took heavy loses in vanilla, infected RM managed to invade New Tokyo!), now against Gallia, yet I don't see Bretonian players complaining about "molly conspiracy."
In conclusion, voted "overpowered"
Also moving to proper subforum
RE: Rheinland Stronger than Disco Gives Credit - Lobster - 12-13-2013
Quote:Rheinland suffered great losses in the Nomad War, then was on and off warring with Liberty for at least a decade. Now they've got an economy that's tanked more than the US's did in 1929 and their shipyards are building stuff for Kusari to help pay off their debts.
They don't have a powerful fleet. They barely have the ability to sustain one.
Quote:Count, that every battleship except for Westfalen was destroyed to the end of SP
I agree 100% with the above posts.
/thread
RE: Rheinland Stronger than Disco Gives Credit - Pancakes - 12-13-2013
Pavel the rightous
RE: Rheinland Stronger than Disco Gives Credit - Omicron - 12-13-2013
Where did you got those "survivor" numbers of all those caps? Freelancer well states that Rheinland fleet has been devastated.
RE: Rheinland Stronger than Disco Gives Credit - Lonely_Ghost - 12-13-2013
It's ok as [RM] is. They have snubs as main force, and cap ships for only special days with inventation only.
And yeah, in Vanila, you can see, that Westfalen is only one battleship left in Rheinland Military.
RE: Rheinland Stronger than Disco Gives Credit - Haste - 12-13-2013
What's right about the OP is that "once upon a time" Rheinland was able to build an enormous fleet. This means that, again, "once upon a time" they had a large stockpile of resources and a strong economy.
Which in turn should mean that they are able to recover. That they're currently weak because of the fairly recent Nomad war (and of course the one with Liberty) is logical. On the other hand, they have potential to recover and be powerful once again if given time.
Which would be nice to see. Liberty needs more (inRP) competitors. Gallia's fate is already more or less sealed.
Thinking about it, it's kind of odd that Sirius right now has no equivalent to nuclear deterrence. Large houses fight wars the "old school" way. Don't we have giant antimatter bombs for 'mutually assured destruction' or something?
RE: Rheinland Stronger than Disco Gives Credit - Altejago - 12-13-2013
I so drunk I don't even care