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+--- Thread: Sanctions, Fines, and that sort of thing (/showthread.php?tid=14080)
Sanctions, Fines, and that sort of thing - AceofSpades - 11-28-2008
I've just noticed lately there's a ton of sanctions and fines, and while sometimes they are unquestionable-ooRP setup, flaming, that sort of thing- some of them get very debated.
Especially of late, sanctions for just shooting people up, or doing something that seems outside normal behavior, or handling a pirating/stopping a smuggler.
I though to myself, alot of these things would be cleared up if in game the two parties would explain themselves. As we are supposed to, I believe, the sanction filer should first address the party he is frustrated with. Or the party who he believes is violating a rule, whatever. I think too many sanctions and large fines here are due to misunderstandings that are easily avoided. I've seen plenty of combat, like the recent DW one, where fighting or talking took place elsewhere and then suddenly fighting breaks out. One side or a party standing by is like "wth?" and files a sanction. Or sometimes, conversation in Private Message leads to action, but to many it seems two people just opened up... Also, things like unusual setups that are Special RP, or other stuff like that or whatever (its 4am I'm a bit tired) could be solved through a quick chat.
And really, it is said that "Sanctions are a last resort blah blah talk to the guy first"
I think, to both provide both sides of the argument at least in a brief term as the sanction is thought out, not afterward (it's really hard to go back and overturn a decision made...), and to help prevent a ton of necessary crap, All Sanction Reports regarding engagement, unusual actions (freelancer taking the unlawful side?) and stuff that isn't obvious (Tiz's on a Falcata or somethin) should HAVE to include at least a brief communication with the "violator" in an attempt to in the very least understand, if not clear up, the situation This helps players at least talk, and helps Admins because now, hopefully, they at least see what was going through this guys head, and maybe everyone understands the situation a bit better
I have yet to get a fine or sanction, but I feel bad for everyone who gets one in a somewhat questionable state. Heck I've even given some of the broke ones some money because I'm like ahhhh that sucks. I think everyone agrees the Sanction Report part of the forum shouldn't be one of our most popular ones, anyone who thinks this is an idea that should be considered vote Aye!
Sanctions, Fines, and that sort of thing - Laowai - 11-28-2008
I voted a tentative yes:
I do agree sanction should be the last resort and that communication with the alleged offender - i dont really think it should be included in the sanction unless it supports the alleged sanction really, but i think quite a few many sanctions could be avoided by simply talking to people.
I am confident that sanctions once they have been applied are fine - but i do think people need to be a little less eager to sanction for minor infractions and more will to talk.
Sanctions, Fines, and that sort of thing - looqas - 11-28-2008
' Wrote:I voted a tentative yes:
I do agree sanction should be the last resort and that communication with the alleged offender - i dont really think it should be included in the sanction unless it supports the alleged sanction really, but i think quite a few many sanctions could be avoided by simply talking to people.
I am confident that sanctions once they have been applied are fine - but i do think people need to be a little less eager to sanction for minor infractions and more will to talk.
On the same lines here. I find that it's less hassle for me to kindly point out something that is against the rules than to get the screenies, load them up and write a report.
I think we see a major rise in the sanctions because line has become harder what is OORP and what is not and people use it as a revenge weapon to get even.
I've been wondering about the recent step up in some of the more experienced players getting sanction. I doubt they have changed their style of play that much over the time.
But at the same time I see the tendency to jump the gun and do the talking later has had a very bad effect in this also.
I also think that if I get killed no matter how OORP ship or load-out or against the multiple ships or such, I will not report them. I contact them in PM and try to hear their side of the story.
Also if someone tries to re-engage, I disengage, fly to safer grounds and then PM them and see what they think of it.
It also helps very much me avoiding getting the report written about me that I clearly make sure that the other guy knows that I'm engaging him. Write the note, wait a bit, then dent his shields a bit and then wait a bit more so that the guy has time to realise that there are more people involved than he originally thought.
I want to win my fights so that the other guy at least knows what's coming. Sucker-punches are one of the sorriest things I've ever seen and sadly those are on the rise in the server.
EDIT:
A very good piece of advice to all of you. When you PM the violator do not threaten him! Don't say "...or I'll report you." All it will do is to make you sound like a whiner and sore loser in case you got pasted. Instead you can always make reference to reporting by saying "...or someone sooner or later reports..."
In this way you are not being aggressive, but rather helpful mr. Niceguy, and prevent antagonizing the situation more. And in the end you'll more likely will part in the guy in good spirit and he might even thank you for it.
Sanctions, Fines, and that sort of thing - Coin - 11-28-2008
Not sure what the poll is for....
I think that making the inclusion in a sanction report a screenie of your trying to reason/explain to the other side your viewpoint/issue mandatory is an excellent idea.
We're supposed to be all gamers, out to have fun. We're also supposed to acknowledge that sanctions are a last resort, not a goal.
Their inclusion would take a load of time off the admins because 1) it forces the players to interact, POSSIBLY solving their problem without running to big brother, and 2) the admins won't need to access the chat logs to see whats been going on, as it will be in front of them.
This would have benefits for players - we could lose the /set chattime FLhook thingy, reducing server load, and also the server lags when an admin is accessing the server commands.
I have never been sanctioned, and hopefully i never will. I've taken a few screenies of a guy who tried to pirate my gunboat in a Mammoth (yeah, 'What?'), who then fled, and then proceeded to call me chicken, presumably so he could get a screenie of my similarly flavoured reply... but in the morning i thought 'whats the point? Sooner or later hes gonna get sanctioned himself'
Have also seen a big increase in sanctions, both for new players and long established ones. I'm hoping that this is a temporary situation, caused by an influx of new players to the server, and when they get settled, and less screen-shot-happy, things will calm down once again.
Sanctions, Fines, and that sort of thing - Jinx - 11-28-2008
there are not more sanctions than a year ago - or at least it doesn t feel like there are. - nor are sanctions put on players easier or harder than before.
there are times when there are more sanctions ( but thats more seasonal ) and times when there are less sanctions. ( you d rather get sanctions in winter than in summer - in summer, ppl are outdoors doing anything but sitting in front of their screen - in winter though - they may spend their spare time with computer games more... and when there are more players playing, there are more sanctions )
but other than the few perma bans and a more reliable anti-cheat software.... i don t see any changes. ( nor the necessity to change things too much )
Sanctions, Fines, and that sort of thing - Agmen of Eladesor - 11-28-2008
I think part of it depends on what you work out in game.
I get to play online quite a lot, relatively speaking, compared to many people. Over the past two weeks, I've probably seen 30 plus sanctionable events - almost all of them due to civ ID's at level 40+.
THOSE events would be handled easily if people would just get the ID before they transfer the money to the new character. Most all of the time, everyone I've communicated with has either said, 'working on it' or said they didn't realize that.
However, also look at how many sanction report replies are done on people who never post here. They may not have even READ anything here. Ignorance of the law (server rules) is no excuse for breaking them.
Sanctions, Fines, and that sort of thing - n00bl3t - 11-28-2008
I have never sanctioned anyone.
I always try to let the person know what they were doing wrong. If they do not listen, I move along.
Sanctions, Fines, and that sort of thing - Caelum - 11-28-2008
[minor_rant]
Quote:I have never sanctioned anyone.Same here. Nor have I ever been sanctioned.
I always try to let the person know what they were doing wrong. If they do not listen, I move along.
Basically folks, if you ask me, stick to logic (aside from special RP chars). An LSF ship doesn't dock on Malta, you don't go hunting outcasts with Corsairs whilst doing bounties for the Outcasts, etc.
I admittedly have been rather annoyed on those rare occasions you for example pirate a trader who then f1s and brings out his Bretonian Battleship in Sigma 13...then attacks you again after being destroyed (did happen), BUT
'Tis a game folks.
If I personally find someone so OoRP against me (And I mean heavy OoRPness, not just f1ing when being pirated even), I place a bounty on them, have fun hunting, end of story.
Basically, just discuss it in a civilized way if someone thinks you broke a rule/if you think someone broke a rule, always worked for me;)
[/minor_rant]