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+--- Thread: Generic ID-Hiring Players for Non-Bounty Lawful Attacks (/showthread.php?tid=141565)
Generic ID-Hiring Players for Non-Bounty Lawful Attacks - Inferno - 07-27-2016
So, after one too many encounters with a certain group of players(and this is not a hate post, I don't do that), it is time to straighten this out once and for all.
Say an Unlawful with a Generic Unlawful ID(lets use a Gaian for this example) hires a Freelancer-ID'd ship to attack transports and engage lawfuls. Is this justified? Can I become a generic Gaian and hire a bunch of Freelancers to help me kill Lawful ships and transports?
Allow me to pull an example from the Bounty Hunting rules.
Bounty Rule 4 Wrote:Mercenaries, freelancers and bounty hunters may be hired on the spot in game by non-generic IDed players to assist with a combat without a forum post. The other parties involved in the combat must be made aware of this.
If the rule above applies in combat situations, then the idea of an Unlawful hiring a Freelancer is invalid. On top of this, the Freelancer's ID states the following:
Freelancer ID Wrote:Pilot carrying this quasi-lawful ID is a Freelancer, who:
Can attack any ship in self-defense or to protect an friendly or allied ship.
Can fulfill any bounty and escort contracts, and may treat transports as combat targets when executing a bounty or escort contract against them.
Cannot use any transports with more than 3,600 cargo, except for the Pirate Train.
Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.
What draws the line at 'friendly or allied ship'? How far can I go with hiring Freelancers with my Gaian ID to attack quasi-lawful and lawful players without breaking a rule? Can I do this even without bounties?
Also, I have noticed that after battle, the Unlawful player will wait outside a Lawful/QuasiLawful base while the Freelancer gets to enter the Lawful base to restock. Is this valid as well?
I would like to not see Generic Unlawful/Terrorist IDs with small armies of Freelancers(which, in these examples, are all Friendly IFF'd, save for the pirate) running around killing transports and Quasi/Lawful ships without thought.
I leave this post up for conversation.
RE: Generic ID-Hiring Players for Non-Bounty Lawful Attacks - sindroms - 07-27-2016
If it is a Gaian ID, for example, it is not a Generic ID. A generic ID would be a Freelancer ID, Pirate ID, Miner ID and such.
Also, as far as I remember from a very long ago sanction I myself was involved in - a Xeno ID cannot hire a Freelancer ID to kill a transport if they themselves (the xeno) is not present. The hired gun can assist in shooting it, but they cannot - say -cover a JG for the Xeno while they are away.
Thus the line in the FL ID (which gets hired) is quite clear. Cannot participate in any unlawful actions apart from the above. They can be hired to assist shooting someone - but they cannot be hired to pirate in someone's stead or to engage someone on their own without the hirerer being present to ''assist''.
RE: Generic ID-Hiring Players for Non-Bounty Lawful Attacks - Inferno - 07-27-2016
Right. So, Transports are safe if the Unlawful isnt there.
What would define a non-generic ID at this point? An NPC faction ID(that has a player faction, like a Hacker ID, and not a 'LH~' ID) does not count as a Generic in this case?
I would like clarification before I get so frustrated I engage Freelance snubs in a overpowered Cruiser because they didn't fight fairly with their Unlawful master.
RE: Generic ID-Hiring Players for Non-Bounty Lawful Attacks - sindroms - 07-27-2016
If the ID does not state that it is generic, it is not a generic ID. Simply put, if the ID has an accompanying IFF and represents an NPC faction (With the exception of a Freelancer), it is a non-generic ID.
Generic IDs are as follows:
Freelancer ID
Pirate ID
Miner ID
Recruit ID
Terrorist ID
Fugitive/Criminal ID
Special Ops ID
All other IDs can hire a freelancer to "Assist In Combat" only. They cannot hire them to take advantage of their own ID's lines, such as "Treat Transports as Combat Targets" or "Demand Credits and Cargo". The only way a Freelancer hiree can attack someone is by assisting the person who hired them when they are present and their hiring is made clear to the enemy.
The only exception I personally know is freelancer IDs used as scouts for convoys. They can demand the pirate leaves the lane - though you might need to ask @Jack_Henderson for the specific moments where this is and is not applicable.
RE: Generic ID-Hiring Players for Non-Bounty Lawful Attacks - Inferno - 07-27-2016
Well, nice to have it clarified. Still going to start using that cruiser though. Makes little snubs less of a problem.
RE: Generic ID-Hiring Players for Non-Bounty Lawful Attacks - aerelm - 07-28-2016
Seems you're confusing Generic IDs with Indie IDs. Different things.
Indie ID: Faction IDs representing the npc faction, while not being part of the official faction.
Generic ID: IDs not belonging to any faction at all. The ones Spazzy listed.
(Though, as per SRP terms, SRP IDs are not considered generic if the char belongs to a faction, in which case it'd be using a faction IFF.)
As for your questions:
1. Non-generic IDs can hire Freelancers only in combat situations. That means if you're attacking a ship, you can hire a Freelancer to help you out in that engagement (long as the other party is made aware of it), but you can't hire the lancer to sit at a different lane and pirate anything that comes through (i.e. the hired freelancer can only assist, and can't act on their own without a forum bounty).
2. If the generic IDed ships are docking with a station belonging to the same faction/house they just attacked, it'd be a violation. If not, they're ok.
Indie ID: Faction IDs representing the npc faction, while not being part of the official faction.
Generic ID: IDs not belonging to any faction at all. The ones Spazzy listed.
(Though, as per SRP terms, SRP IDs are not considered generic if the char belongs to a faction, in which case it'd be using a faction IFF.)
As for your questions:
1. Non-generic IDs can hire Freelancers only in combat situations. That means if you're attacking a ship, you can hire a Freelancer to help you out in that engagement (long as the other party is made aware of it), but you can't hire the lancer to sit at a different lane and pirate anything that comes through (i.e. the hired freelancer can only assist, and can't act on their own without a forum bounty).
2. If the generic IDed ships are docking with a station belonging to the same faction/house they just attacked, it'd be a violation. If not, they're ok.
RE: Generic ID-Hiring Players for Non-Bounty Lawful Attacks - sindroms - 07-28-2016
Odd, I remember it being stated that SRP IDs, IFF or not, are not able to hire freelancers due to their unique lines. Especially ones referring to engagement rights. Though since almost nobody even does SRPs these days, I can see why it is not really a big deal anyway.
RE: Generic ID-Hiring Players for Non-Bounty Lawful Attacks - Sombs - 07-28-2016
(07-28-2016, 07:54 AM)sindroms Wrote: Odd, I remember it being stated that SRP IDs, IFF or not, are not able to hire freelancers due to their unique lines. Especially ones referring to engagement rights. Though since almost nobody even does SRPs these days, I can see why it is not really a big deal anyway.
That's a line I'd like to see.