+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Rules & Requests (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Rules (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Regarding Cloaked Engagements. (/showthread.php?tid=147435)
Regarding Cloaked Engagements. - Mr.Fabulous - 01-27-2017
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=147416
Looking at this thread, and the resulting video (which, btw, was awesome, durango so raeped good, props to pilot of durango), it got me thinking...
Have we actually thought long and hard about the fairness of cloaked engagements?
Just here, Durango was under the 10-second before-engagement assumption, which is btw oral law, apparently. But apparently this wasn't ample-time for opposing forces to fairly react... fairness being relative, but that's another can of worms for another time.
I propose a few options for cloaked-engagement to be given special courtesy:
1. When cloaked, with the intent to engage, and within 10k of intended target, attacker must type a 'presence' message at least 30 seconds before intended attack, and a 'reveal and attack' message at least 5 seconds before firing the first shot.
1.1. A 'presence' message is a local message indicating that an invisible force is felt within the vicinity.
1.2. A 'reveal and attack' message is your engagement notice, while also including the detail of your ship uncloaking
2. When cloaked, with the intent to engage, and within 15k of intended target, attacker must type a 'reveal' message at least 10 seconds before uncloaking, and an 'attack' message at least 5 seconds after uncloaking and before firing the first shot.
2.1 A 'reveal' message is a local message indicating your ship beginning to uncloak
2.2 An 'attack' message is your engagement notice.
What do you think? These good? Got better? The idea behind it is to allow defenders ample time to 'be on their toes', but still giving the attacker enough of an element of surprise and suspense.
RE: Regarding Cloaked Engagements. - Epo - 01-27-2017
Cloaks aren't silent toys. There's a reason why cloak disruptors got implemented, so if you have any problems with cloaks get a disruptor and it will solve all the problems.
In my feeling Durango did nothing wrong as the first message was dropped at 0:11 with a lot of time before The first shots flew ahead. If something invisible, what belongs to a faction hostile to you, drops a message it shows clearly that the vessel is already doing aggressive manauvers so you will get shot soon.
Cloaks are fine as they are along with cl disruptors. The problem is not about them but about some people who might get pissed by such action. Learn to cope with ingame enviroment, that's all.
RE: Regarding Cloaked Engagements. - Wesker - 01-27-2017
Cloaks have always been used this way and should be kept this way, they can be used strategically to pin down a larger force or pick off caps that aren't in formation.
Having cloaks the way they are now is fine.
RE: Regarding Cloaked Engagements. - Sombs - 01-27-2017
I have to agree with Wesker and Epona. Cloaks aren't the problem. The problem is still the lack of motivation to use cloak disruptors. After all, the Battleship version of those is pretty useful. Yeah, Wesker could have waited a little bit longer in his case, but he was still acting within the rules. Everything is fine.
RE: Regarding Cloaked Engagements. - Ikarus_Hagen - 01-27-2017
Would be nice when there is a server rule that is something like the nomad cloak rule. Like: "you have to be uncloaked to RP to attack someone."
I mean, a Ranseur buttlocaked a Defiant (thanks for the small shape). Kind of unfair.
RE: Regarding Cloaked Engagements. - JonasHudson - 01-28-2017
Quote:The issue here is that the ship in question was cloaked when it RP'd. There is no way for the person that is about to be attacked, to know that he will be attacked for certain within the next 10 seconds after it sees the first message, as the RP might as well be directed at another person withing local chat range. As such RP while being cloaked does not really qualify here.
Which leads us back to the reasonable time before hostilities, as that is not given when you uncloak and instantly unleash hell after dropping some lines of chat while being cloaked.
Unfortunately I don't agree with this at all. I have played here since 2012 and the whole time this has been an issue, it has been widely accepted that it is YOUR responsibility to be diligent with your craft. If you see a notice in local, and the only person around is not the person who just dropped the message, or you don't have them on scanner among any others present, you can put it together really quick that there is a ship cloaked nearby dropping the message. Combined with the cloak sound (which was brought in to put these situations to bed forever), you have more than enough information on average to take evasive action leading up to a properly role played attack by a cloaked vessel. I have seen this and done this myself and as long as you give that minimum time it has always been enough and more than obvious what was coming. This seems like yet another bias against the cloak, one of too many that have piled up on this server. RP in local while cloaked still ought to be considered legit. That just totally kills the last possible practical use of the cloak, now that escape from battle has been made impossible on all types. Piled up with the cloak disruptor's now filling the market, ambush is just about the last thing you can really do to enjoy using them and feel like you applied the technology and tactics practically. That's why I have always played this game, cloaks are not supposed to be just cosmetic or for RP purposes only. Now, typically I pirate, so cloaked or not if a demand is made in local, it gives more time than when ID's are otherwise clear to engage upon first contact. Also for piracy, demands for cargo/credits or simply to stop tip someone off and its usually prudent to drop the cloak to fire your CD. When factions are enemies or if bounty hunting and a clear attack declaration is made against a target, it most certainly should count as valid RP and engagement RP.
Some things do have to be your job, like keeping yourself alive. Everytime I crash into a planet with a full load of pscrap, I remind myself of the NPC that's always saying 'Don't look away, even for a second, that's all it takes'.