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+--- Thread: SCRA Politics - Proposing an idea (/showthread.php?tid=15889)
SCRA Politics - Proposing an idea - Zeltak - 01-29-2009
Before I start I would like to make some things very clear:
- This is just an idea. That means it is not an official stance/demand of the SCRA faction.
- Feedback is wanted. You are free to write both negative and positive feedback, just make sure that it's constructive. Writing a post such as: "Yeah good idea." is as bad as writing: "This idea sucks." I value your motivation(s) to your opinion.
- No flaming whatsoever. Which should cover any form of personal attacks against me or any other person. If such flaming occurs the admins/moderators will make sure that they are removed.
--------------------------
Now for my idea:
It is a known fact that when the mod updates to 4.85, Liberty and Rheinland houses will initiate a war against each other due to the growing tensions between them.
And when this war begins, it is most likely that some Unlawful Groups from both houses will in one way or another meddle with the conflict.
Now one of the unlawful groups of Rheinland are the Red Hessians which are allied to the SCRA. IF and only IF the Red Hessians decides to enter the war or merely engage with the politics caused by it.
Do you believe it is a good idea for the SCRA to aid in whatever the Red Hessians decides to do?
Example: The Red Hessians realizes that even though the Rheinland Military and the Corporations they protect are in conflict with them, Liberty is still a worser enemy. Thus the Red Hessians decides to unite with the Rheinland Military by aiding them against the war with Liberty.
SCRA will now support their Red Hessian allies whenever they can.
If you like the idea, but still think it needs improvements, please give suggestions.
SCRA Politics - Proposing an idea - Fletcher - 01-29-2009
Well I know next to naught about SCRA, apart that they are communists in a galaxy that hates them right now minus the minority. They need all the help they can get (but won't admit it), so allies are very valuable.
Should the Red Hessians go to war with whoever, maybe Rheinland, I can see SCRA jumping in to 'fulfill' the extermination of their ancient political enemies by carrying out their orders. Not to mention they could make great resource and monetary gain if they manage to blast their way into the capital and interdict the trade convoys. Piracy, yes, but every army needs fuel and money.
I can see it to be logical that SCRA joins the Red Hessians in war to honor their pact, and gain some ground in Sirius.
SCRA Politics - Proposing an idea - Drake - 01-29-2009
I honestly don't see the Hessian supporting Rhineland, or getting involved at all. Don't they just want to carve their own little House out of the Omegas? I can only imagine that the Liberty/Rhineland war would be a great opportunity for them to expand.
SCRA Politics - Proposing an idea - Cyro - 01-29-2009
' Wrote:I honestly don't see the Hessian supporting Rhineland, or getting involved at all. Don't they just want to carve their own little House out of the Omegas? I can only imagine that the Liberty/Rhineland war would be a great opportunity for them to expand.
They don't want the Liberty to take control of Rheinland. Because then it'll be even worse, and they also want to protect their territory. Sometimes you'll just ally with your enemy for a moment to protect your motherland.
EDIT: AND, also, such temporary alliance has already been done a few times. Against Corsairs.
SCRA Politics - Proposing an idea - Jose Benitez - 01-29-2009
I think it is likely to depend on how it is done.
For instance ;-
1. Would you expect the Hessians to ally themselves to the Rheinland military? (By Ally I mean fight alongside them and not attack them or the Rheinland Corporations - would the Rheinlanders accept help from what they currently consider to be a group of lawbreakers, or would they attack the Hessians as well?).
2. Alternately, would you expect the Hessians to be more proactive and deliberately seek out the Liberty military and their associated Corporations?
3. Finally, why would the Hessians not seek to do a deal with the Libertonians? I appreciate that there is no love lost between them but it would potentially be a great opportunity for the Hessians to expand their influence with the help of a powerful ally.
From the SCRA point of view if the scenario existed as outlined in 1 then I do not think that the SCRA would assist. It does not seem to me to be very "revolutionary" to assist a group that some might consider are the oppressers? I think they would be more likely to simply stay away from it - although it may put a political strain on their relationship with the Hessians?
If sceanrio 2 were to come about then I think it more likely that the SCRA would assist in what might be perceived as attacks on an oppressive establishment. It seems probable that it would gain them support in certain areas of a population that would be most likely to support them.
In the case of the final scenario I guess it depends on how the SCRA feel about the Libertonians? If they had no particular feelings one way or the other then they would possibly help the Hessians. If they dislike the Libertonians and what they stand for then they may not support any type of deal between the Hessians and the Libertonians (whcih is not to say that they would start shooting at the Hessians either).
Jose
PS Before I get too much of a kicking for this I will admit to not being an expert in the politics of the Hessians, SCRA, Rheinlanders or the Libertonians!
SCRA Politics - Proposing an idea - Slavik - 01-29-2009
Hessians should not interfere at all, Bundshuh and unioners perhaps but the hessians really are in to big of a conflict with the corsairs on their turf.
SCRA Politics - Proposing an idea - Jinx - 01-29-2009
its a bit political there ... hessians are not very fond of rheinland - and certainly not fond of liberty invading ( or however the propaganda is done in rheinland ... after some time, you won t know who started, you just know who wants to end it )
aiding rheinland would follow the principle that my enemies enemy is my friend - which can also turn to my enemies enemy is also my enemy - and i ll pick either of them when they re weak enough.
but its not about hessians for that matter.... - lets assume that the hessians DO aid rheinland against liberty in one way or another....
one would have to ask .... "who are the SCRA" ... deep down. - they are basicly a smallish faction that claims to have or regain the authority of not only a house - but the prime authority in sirius. - that is what the coalition tried to achieve in Sol - and that is probably the long term aim here, too.
how far would they go to achieve such a goal? - as a semi lawful group ( and - like the dragons the SCRA will hardly refer to itself as a criminal organization.... unlike the corsairs for example, who know full well that they are pirates - and proud to be ) - they might have a moral codex - no matter how twisted - but they might have one... ( one part of it is that they don t harm civilians for example )
there are too many "what ifs" in this question - too many variables for such a complex matter to weigh against each other. - the SCRA would not openly aid a pirate group but would maybe mutually give moral support ( and other secondary support - possibly even fighter and equipment - IF the hessians needed that sort of stuff ... which they don t ) - they might act as forward bases for hessians - but far enough away from the frontline .... but the hessians are better equipped in every department AND larger than the SCRA. - the hessians have their own fighterline from a LF to a VHF/bomber - they have a gunboat, a cruiser ... the SCRA has little to offer such a group.
furthermore, hessians are trained due to the long war against the corsairs, they are probably quite rich, too - due to being the 3rd largest sirius pirate faction - they even do a lucrative trade with diamonds ( and some special commodities, too )
i think the SCRA would bide their time - watching very closely how the conflict goes. - i my opinion, they wouldn t engage - other than in the role of a vulture, picking on those that are down already, - not cause they cannot do something else, - but cause getting involved more might cause more problems than it solves.
if the SCRA went against liberty too much - liberty might focus on the SCRA - and even an expedition corps of liberty could harm the SCRA seriously. - liberty deploys a powerful secret service, has a huge fleet - is much more advanced technologicly and can afford to fight on more than one border - or at least.... thinks it can.
SCRA Politics - Proposing an idea - Zeltak - 01-29-2009
Thank you for all your inputs, I really appreciate them. And everything that has been said so far I will take in account and try to develop my idea further.
What I appreciated even more is that everyone has elaborated their thoughts well and given good arguments for their opinions.
After some thinking I would agree to alot of Jinx's idea on how the SCRA should behave in this upcoming conflict.
The "Vulture" example is great, and it was actually something I had been thinking of for a time. I also agree alot with that there are too many "If's" in order to fully set-up a guideline on how the SCRA should behave during this conflict, it is a matter of wait and see.
However, my main idea with this thread was to ask if the SCRA could engage more in the roleplaying politics rather than just keep attacking Omega-5 and Omega-3 all day long, which seems to have unfortunately happen alot lately. I want our faction to move towards something better and I thought that the Red Hessian alliance along with the upcoming Rheinland versus Liberty, it would be the perfect opportunity for the SCRA to engage in more complex and serious politics.
Once again I thank you all for your inputs and you are free to post more if you wish. I must take what has been said already and forward it to the members of the SCRA faction and also take some time to think myself.
SCRA Politics - Proposing an idea - jammi - 01-29-2009
I think I'm going to sit on the fence for this one, because I can think of a fair few reasons for the SCRA to help Rhienland and oppose it.
For helping Rhienland, I'd say that:
1) In Freelancer Liberty is Capitalism embodied, hence the hostility towards them from Communists.
2) Cementing relations with the Red Hessians and other Rhienland criminal groups such as the Unioners.
3) Winning points/recruits with/from the Rhinelandic people, "we're not the bad people here - see us beat down the capitalist pigs" type thing.
For not helping Rhienland:
1) Rhienland is governed by the 'GottKanzler' who is a dictator (I think) who has the sovereign power of a deity according to the Rhienland state religion. I don't think that religion agrees with Marxism, but don't quote me on that. Plus that dictatorship isn't their dictatorship.
2) Both Houses go to war and inevitably grind themselves down without any assistance from the SCRA. If the SCRA haven't participated at all, they haven't lost any forces, meaning they're free to harass the now weakened Houses at full capacity.
@Jinx - You say the Hessians are well trained, but they're not. Even if the players can whup the average Corsair without breaking a sweat, the NPC faction supposedly has numbers but is poor on the training side of things. Hence the stalemate in Omega 5. It's kinda sad how things have been reversed by the players really...
EDIT: Just saw Zeltak's post, and I would really like the SCRA to get heavily involved of politics. Maybe dispersing people around Rhienland? Besides, I'm getting tired of you guys whupping my backside whenever I undock from Cadiz:P
I would post an app. as well, with all the shiny new toys you guys are getting next mod, but to be frank I'm about as useful as a rusty tin can that's... full of polystyrene, in a fight.
SCRA Politics - Proposing an idea - Drake - 01-29-2009
' Wrote:They don't want the Liberty to take control of Rheinland. Because then it'll be even worse, and they also want to protect their territory. Sometimes you'll just ally with your enemy for a moment to protect your motherland.
I don't really understand how it would be worse... Liberty's resources and defenses would be stretched thinner, and Rhineland is already a military dictatorship. How could the corrupt capitalism of Liberty make things worse for the Hessians? Plus the odds that Liberty could completely overrun Rhineland, rather than just taking Bering and maybe Hamburg (which have no Hessian presence) is practically nil.
I think the SCRA might ally with the Hessians and other Rhineland lawfuls if they thought they could sow the seeds of communism, or help the 'common man' against the corrupt House government, but I don't see them or the Hessians fighting against Liberty. I don't see any of the Rhineland lawfuls helping against Liberty.