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+--- Thread: Ask Discovery: Order/Corsair Alliance (/showthread.php?tid=17340)
Ask Discovery: Order/Corsair Alliance - tfmachad - 03-07-2009
So, at this side we get the Order: (Noble spirited and altruistic knight-like?) people who abdicated normal life amongst the rest of Sirius population to silently fight the very real Nomad Aliens threat in far reaches of deep space.
At the other side we get the Corsairs: (Harsh conditions hardened and mean, pirate-like?) people whose homeworld's major export is (figures!) Alien Artifacts, no less.
Quote:ARTIFACTS
Remnants of an alien civilization that existed long before humanity crawled from the ocean. The particulars of each individual Artifact vary, but archeologists and scientists have been unable to determine their function; for all intents and purposes they appear to be inert chunks of crystal and metal inscribed with decorative patterns. A thriving market for Artifacts has sprung up over the years among art collectors and the social elite looking for a new status symbol.
So, I can't avoid but wonder: You get the people that indiscriminately disseminate pieces of equipment, buildings and whatever else that belonged to some alien race(s) and that no scientist or archaeologist seems to have been able to specify their purpose or function. Then you get the people who actively pursue to eliminate a very serious alien threat that is known to act through subterfuge and quiet invasion and corporal domination. No less, these are the same guys who have already got their hands on (or at least heard first hand of) one specific archaeological find (artefact) which had a very specific and strong relationship with the same aliens they fight against.
Now, either the Order in it's entirety is completely irresponsible or utterly oblivious to something suggestively serious that is going on right under their noses, or they are really dumb.
Now, disregarding that (blatant?) issue... You get an alliance that's convenient for the Order from a sheer force standpoint, since the Corsairs are a whole nation (or a small House per se) in themselves, and convenient for the Corsairs from a technical/intelligence standpoint (Osiris and the sort). Even considering an alliance, I would think that Order operatives would have better stuff to do than to be hanging out in Crete, getting a feel of the hood with their Corsair chums, eager to jump in at the slightest sign of a cock fight that comes the Corsairs' way.
I mean, weren't these guys supposed to be out there, occupied with fending the Nomads, lest they build up to such a position of power that Sirius is at their mercy again? Can the Order really afford to be "hanging out" at Crete and get involved with Corsairs' petty fights while there are still Nomads at the loose? And getting back at my first development, why doesn't the Order take the slightest exception to the Corsairs' large scale spreading of unknown purpose Alien Artifacts?
Before people come with strange claims, I had indeed a medium scale encounter in Crete today. At a given point, in the middle of the battle that followed the initial encounter, an Order Nephtys popped in. After a while, the Order fighter was involved in the skirmish. I wasn't really angry about it, rather than curious. This is something that has bothered me before and it occurred to me again during that fight.
So, I'm not suggesting that this alliance is in itself borked, I'm really just curious as to what the Order and/or Corsair experienced players make of those issues.
Ask Discovery: Order/Corsair Alliance - Orin - 03-07-2009
The alliance was one of necessity, as far as I know and can determine. The Order was, and is, a rather small group. They did not have the means to stage large scale ship construction. The Corsairs did, and they used that resource.
Other ideas are rather opinionated, compared with that. The Corsairs also are at odds with the Nomads, and the Bounty Hunters Guild. So there are a few common interests. Not to mention the Order most likely did not want another enemy for themselves, being in such close proximity to the Corsair home world. Why have another enemy when you can have another ally?
There are reasons that the two may not like each other, but there are also reasons they may. Things develop in different ways; this instance just leaned towards the friendly side.
That said, things should be a bit more different now. The Order really has little reason to aid the Corsairs in military instances. Defending Crete, perhaps, but probably little more than that. We also know that the Order have their shipyards now, so that necessity may be come and gone. Still, I wouldn't imagine hostility after that fact.
Ask Discovery: Order/Corsair Alliance - tfmachad - 03-07-2009
So you'd say that the Artefact issue is a mere detail? I mean, if I was Order and were to chose between the major "pirate" groups to ally with for bulk because the Houses governments couldn't be trusted at the time and there was the need to actively fight them I'd go for the Hessians.
I mean, the Outcasts, as far as the Order is concerned, are in bed with their primary enemy, so that would be a crazy (at best) option.
The Corsairs indiscriminately distribute what could very well be Nomad related materials throughout House space, not to mention they're directly exposed to it throughout their lives.
So, you're left with the Hessians. I'd say that their "alliance" with the Outcasts exists much more because of the whole (Corsair vs Outcasts two sides of the war thing they did with all pirate factions in Sirius) than anything with more substance. AFAIK Hessians have no involvement in the Cardamine cartel (or do they?). So, for that matter, the Hessians would configure a less dangerous, or at least less uncertain, base of strength for the Order.
Also I'm somewhat bugged by the fact that people who set out to defend the human race against the Nomads would just chose to oversee Artefact smuggling. It's REALLY strange. AFAIK, the Liberty government just outlawed Artefacts because it wanted them for itself, so they could study them and harness whatever powers they might discover. How would the Order ignore that?
Ask Discovery: Order/Corsair Alliance - Xing - 03-07-2009
The alliance is one of the dumbest thing from the mod, pardon me to say so. It makes no logical sense, and this is just a new - and fairly well explained argument Gronath adds up to the already significant list of non sense caused by this alliance
Ask Discovery: Order/Corsair Alliance - Jinx - 03-07-2009
there is another argument that speaks FOR the alliance.
lets say - artifacts smuggle happens anyway, alliance or not. - but a close alliance makes the order have a keen eye on what is exported. its a bit like that.... if you cannot fight it, keep it under control at least. IF you can fight it.... fight it.
now the order cannot make corsairs stop their smuggle. - so a logical step is to work with them to ensure that at least some artifacts are not distributed. by being allies, they can work "with" them. for the outsiders eyes, it looks odd.
order are allies and watchdogs, watching over their friends - a luxory they wouldn t have when they were not allied. an alliance doesn t mean that the order actually makes it easier for the corsairs to export. "artifacts" are very generic. - some might be little icons, statues etc. - some might be data cores. - i daresay - most contain "harmless" content - and the ones that contain "dangerous" content might be sorted out. - which would then make everyone happy.
Ask Discovery: Order/Corsair Alliance - Petersen - 03-07-2009
i have to agree with yue, i never really understood the reasoning for this odd alliance. i can see the pro points people bring up for it but the negative effects of this alliance just overweigh them heavily.
i think the zoners are enough of an ally for the order. and they are a perfect choice as they are peaceful to everyone except the nomads/wilde and have a lot of resources they can share with the order. and this relation between zoners/order seems to go very deep. if you check the info card on corinth research station deep inside the secure minefield in the o-74 zoners guard system you will read that there are in fact zoner and order engineers working hand in hand on advanced technology. this is the only instance of another faction actually being implemented into one factions guard system i have encountered so far. so it seems like order and zoners really share a lot of technology and bond to develop new technology together. this makes perfect sense as the order wouldnt be afraid that their high end technology might wind up being used to blow up civilians like it might happen with components shared with the corsairs.
in my oppinion the order is the faction with the highest morale standards in the whole sirius sector, giving their personal freedom, going to a life of being called a fugitive/traitor by the liberty politics/media to fight for the greater good of all of sirius population. i cant even see the remote chance that the order would be willing to share technology with a pirate faction that ends up killing civillians for supplies with it. the order isnt an opportunistic faction that throws their morality over board just to make their life easier.
Ask Discovery: Order/Corsair Alliance - Drake - 03-07-2009
I agree with Yue Fei, and I've expressed the same opinion on a few occasions in the past. Basically all the canon friendships the Order had in SP were thrown under the bus so they could be allied with the Corsairs. It's just plain stupid. The Order should have a wide selection of friends, and a wider selection of neutrals, but they shouldn't be allied to the Corsairs.
Ask Discovery: Order/Corsair Alliance - Ash - 03-07-2009
It puts a twist on the order. So people will think twice about joining. Otherwise we'd have hundreds of pilots wanting the join the order stat because...
- Unlike the Nomads the enlistment process is much easier
- The job is easy(ish) - Killing NPCs and investigating Nomad territory
- Killing Keepers, (Lots of Order on to few Keepers)
The Nomads
The Wild
...aaaaaand that's about it.
Ask Discovery: Order/Corsair Alliance - Zelot - 03-07-2009
There is also now the little matter of the fact that the Outcasts and the Nomads have become quite chummy. The OC worship the Nomads after all, so it makes sense that the Order would ally with a group actively opposed to both groups. Also the fact that the Hogosha/Corsairs/Order are all listed as allies says something to me. The Order is not allied with the Gaians or the Farmers, the other parts of the Corsair Alliance, only the Hogosha and Corsairs, who are actively engaged in the Artifact trade. This to me says either the Order is actively engaged in the Artifact trade, and possibly makes some of its operating budget from the trade. This would allow the Order of being in the position of separating out the Artifacts that would be useful for study or dangerous, from the mere trinkets. It would also allow the Order to track where the Artifacts are going, so as to gain intelligence on others who are trying to research the nomads.
I actually dont disagree with most of the statements made by people who think the alliance should not exist, but I think it can be legitimately viewed in different ways, because the basis of the alliance is vague in the game material. I can think of many reasons for the alliance, I can also think of many reasons against the alliance. It is what it is, which at this point is a part of the story-line history. So we have a choice, we can think it doesn't make sense, or we can come up with reasons it does make sense.
I hope that made sense, first post of the day at 6:00am so I am still a bit foggy.
Ask Discovery: Order/Corsair Alliance - Eternal - 03-07-2009
Forgive me for saying this but. Why does this smell like a faction bash in the begging ?
When the Order desided to settle in the Omicrons , they found that the home that was chosen was in close proximity to the home world of the biggest pirate group in Sirius. The Order offered technology in exchange for personel and most importantly everything that Jinx stated above. From our possition as "friends" to the Corsairs we have the best way to monitor exactly what they export.
The Order is a group that relies on intelligence , not one bound by honor. Calculative , The Order has chosen to have an extra ally , then another enemy. Aldo now we do have our own shipyard(s) and have established ourselves in the Omicrons , I still see a need for this allience. The Order simply does not have enought brute strength to fight of the hordes of Bounty Hunter capital ships pouring into the Omicrons and the Order's home. The Corsairs have showed themselves as a key ally in fighting the Bounty Hunters. Also , we still need to monitor the export of Artefacts. So Gronath , the situation is not what it seems. Having the Corsairs deal with artefacts is actually an advantige to us.