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+--- Thread: Order Carrier (/showthread.php?tid=17875)
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Order Carrier - Tenacity - 03-15-2009
Now this has been discussed quite a bit in the capship point defense weapons thread started by cam, and after much discussion with Jinx and others I (and they, I believe) have come to the conclusion that any changes to the point-defense weapons available to the carrier are too likely to overpower other cruisers/battlecruisers, so any changes to improve the carrier's defense against fighters/bombers, or battleships/gunboats, need to effect only the carrier and not the weapons it uses.
So, here are some ideas, only offering up alternatives to changing weapon stats at this point (though it should be noted that I still believe cruiser razors need a projectile speed increase to make them effective against small gunboats):
1. Battleship Shield:
Probably the most controversial suggestion, right now one of the greatest problems I have with my carrier is the fact that the moment my shields go down, any damage taken to the hull causes the screen to shake so bad that I likely wouldnt be able to hit a rheinland battleship at close range. This is, from what I understand of freelancer modding, an issue with the size of the craft (the larger the ship, the more it shakes when taking damage to hull).
Now, unfortunately battlecruisers dont have their own shield class inbetween cruisers and battleships. Instead, they get stuck with cruiser class shields, which are fairly weak for the size of the ships - and the carrier in particular as it is almost twice the size of any other battlecruiser in the mod. Giving the carrier in particular a battleship shield may help the issue, but it could be too much at the same time.
2. Mines as point defense:
I'm not sure if this is even possible in regards to programming, but I'll ask here - is it possible to have mine launchers 'shoot' mines a distance away from the craft as if forcefully expelled from the launcher? If so, positioning 6~ mine launchers at various points around the carrier would give it a weapon to use against any fighters or bombers that get in close, hit the mine button and you throw mines out to strike everything nearby.
This would be a unique mechanic among capships if it were possible. The only other ships to have multiple mine launchers are the spatial and zoner gunboat, and both of those are designed to thrust around laying out a field of mines offensively, rather than to use mines as a defensive net of explosives.
The biggest issue here is that if the mines are not able to be 'launched' away from the carrier to a fair distance (say 100-200~ meters), then they'll simply come back and strike the carrier instead of the attacking fighters/bombers.
3. Multiple Countermeasures / engines
This seems to be a growing thing among order players. Eternal has posted asking for an additional CM to be added to the osiris, we have a cruiser that, unique to all ships, has 4 countermeasure droppers... and honestly it fits the theme of the order, to be able to get away easily.
One thing that I have noticed when fighting other order capships, particularly eternal's osiris (and other osirises) is that capship missiles are... difficult to evade, to say the least. My carrier currently has a heavy CM dropper equipped, and it generally takes me 5-10 countermeasures to shake a single battleship missile. I've noticed similar behavior with most other CM's in regards to both cruise disruptors as well as combat missiles. I dont know if this is just CMs being bugged, or extremely bad luck on my part, but it really shouldnt take more than 2-3 Countermeasures to shake a single missile.
Multiple countermeasure droppers, or a secondary engine up at the front of the battlecruiser (like we see on the recon destroyer) would make it much easier to get away from ships with cruise disruptors, or to evade the anticap missiles from other cruisers and battleships.
I'll post more ideas as I come up with them, comment on those three for now.
Order Carrier - Captain - 03-15-2009
I say it looks all good, but maybe there should be a BC class shield, Class or class 10 and make BS class 11
Order Carrier - greasemunky - 03-15-2009
Sounds like some good plans, but I think that due to the fact that the carrier can't actually carry anything, it will always fall a bit short.
Order Carrier - Tenacity - 03-15-2009
Cruiser razors still need a speed boost. BHG gunships are impossible to hit even with primaries right now, if the razor is designed to be used against small caps, it isnt filling the role very well -_-
Order Carrier - mjolnir - 03-15-2009
1. Shield - maybe
2. Mines - no
you'd need new and special types of weapons
3. Extra CM - yes, most possible suggestion
though... here you'r saying how BS and Cruiser missiles are really dangerous... while in the other thread you complain how Cruisersmissiles are useless:wacko:
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' Wrote:Cruiser razors still need a speed boost. BHG gunships are impossible to hit even with primaries right now, if the razor is designed to be used against small caps, it isnt filling the role very well -_-
In the start you agreed how changing cruiser guns just because of your carrier is wrong... now you'r suddenly back to this.
Simple answer is no....already with the current 800m/s speed is quite easy to blast fighters/bombers with them from the likes of Kusari/BHG dessie, Talarca, Harvester cruiser... and similar ships.
Order Carrier - Tenacity - 03-15-2009
Quote:though... here you'r saying how BS and Cruiser missiles are really dangerous... while in the other thread you complain how Cruisersmissiles are useless wacko.gif
I said bs missiles are dangerous, cruiser missiles dont seem to track half the time, and they still have that little bug that lags you out if you fire the missiles on their own.
Order Carrier - El Nino - 03-16-2009
Yet again.. the carrier is a RP ship, not designed to go in to combat. However you turn it carrier should have some 4 fighters and 4 bombers escorting her at any time, if you want to go in to guerila combat take the Osiris...
It can pwn gunboats just fine, bhg gunships and their 4 pwnsome turrets (pwnsome is hardly the word) probably are not much of a threat are they? Just get 1 bomber escort with nova torpedos.
But once again, carrier is not a combat ship, It's a support ship. If anything It should have more botts and batts, so it could better help allies, more cargo and such... and with 18 turrets you can really go haywire on getting the perfect loadout. By all means it's a speciality ship. One that does not need fixing.
Order Carrier - Tenacity - 03-16-2009
Jure, have you ever tried to RP your way out of getting owned by pvp whores? Have you ever tried to RP your way out of getting owned by a fleet of NPC caps or bombers?
Nobody's RP is that good, not a single person on this server can accomplish that. Tell you what, when your RP gets so good that you can convince the NPC's not to attack you, or when you can convince the NPC's that you have a full fleet of fighters attacking them when you really dont due to borked game mechanics, then you can come back here and tell me that the carrier doesnt need something more.
However, I do like the idea of more bats/bots as an option. Right now with 900 bats, I can recharge my shield -once- with about 50~ bats left over. Simply making the carrier take a much longer time to kill would be enough.
Quote:It can pwn gunboats just fine, bhg gunships and their 4 pwnsome turrets (pwnsome is hardly the word) probably are not much of a threat are they? Just get 1 bomber escort with nova torpedos.
It can pwn the largest gunboats in the game. It cannot do a thing to smaller gunboats and gunships (kusari gb, BHG gunship, etc). This is why cruiser razors need buffed speed.
BTW, those "4 pwnsome turrets" are plenty when the gunship is using a 2 pulse / 2 razor setup, that thing might as well be a bomber.
Order Carrier - El Nino - 03-17-2009
Well, you can see enemy is in your system over "long range" Scanners, hit cruise and flee, wihout engaging, while fighters can come in to get botts via thrusters..... I do think just a quick change to say 1500 botts and batts.... would do us all the most major trick....
Order Carrier - Xing - 03-17-2009
As far as I understand it, the ship is set... for roleplay, not for... pvp pwnership.
Much like how an Atlantis carrier doesn't seems capable to wrestle against a LABC, even at relatively close range. (for having witnessed it myself...)