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+--- Thread: How about this, regarding PoBs and impact of players (/showthread.php?tid=180343)
How about this, regarding PoBs and impact of players - sajuuk111 - 06-02-2020
As being a contributor to both defense and attack side of PoBs, it is simply silly. The system needs to improve, we have all seen it in these times. Here's my take on the issue, and let's take discovery to next level.
To go to my idea, please skip the green part. It is simply just a writing that i needed to write.
Player bases sitting like a duck in a House Controlled zone is simply disgusting, people pay money to the government, and get nothing in return. Anything but not a simple overhaul to this system will be a bandaid that will be exploited in time.
In all times of Discovery, the story was driven by developers and this is the root of the issue. It needs to be driven by people, with devs just spicing up the story. Freelancer is the only game where you feel so powerful, yet so useless. You are in command of a fleet, you raid a house system, yet you just wander around like a headless chicken. Nothing to attract people to you, and nothing to defend nor attack. This game can be something magical that can draw in thousands of people, yet here we are, sitting in battleships, being an easy target.
A Battleship is something to be feared, it can bring destruction. But it has nothing to attack and you are useless.
The PoBs are the perfect thing to attack, with a majestic fleet you can bring destruction and make use of your ships! After all the hard trading, you are useful. There is something that can not outrun you (unlike 99% of the ships ingame) and you start to rip it apart.
In the end, it is all meaningless.
So, how can we change the discovery and make every people feel special and worth something? How can we feel that we are a part of an organization? How can we leave a mark on the server? Merge NPC activity with Player activity. We, players should shape the universe we live in, not developers. This isnt an insult to their efforts, but simply, this game lacks that. A single player can not change anything at all, unless you are a faction leader or developer. I, personally felt that i am a part of something when i attended PoB attacks, and defenses. However they are simply gone and all it left was debate. Nothing changed again.
I am not a developer nor knowing anything regarding how it can be implemented, but here is my take that how can we make a nice overhaul that every-single-person counts and their worth to the environment is the same as a developer.
Let's make every border, zone, base be affected by players. Here's how i think this can be implemented:
1- Simply, give every base a module that can be destroyed (inrp power supply) if destroyed, it is claimable by any party. Siegers or not, have a special ship called as "marine transport" that will take control of the powerless station depending on who docked there first. The marine transport can not cruise, can not enter tradelanes, and is weaponless. It needs to be defended to capture a base. And only takes damage after no capital ship is around it. It can be only launched from a station after you successfully destroy the power supply. So, defenders will always have the upper hand if the attacker's base is far.
Benefits of this implementation: Enormous teamplay with mix of snubs, capital ships and so on. You have something to defend and you have something to attack, which means capital ships can not escape, and attacking capital ships will have something to attack, defending capital ships. It is simply a payload mission in its core, and it has worked greatly with all kinds of games.
2- This is my main idea actually. Border bases. There will be pre-determined bases that cuts the system in parts, which you can claim to control. Every faction in the game will have one of them depending on their power according to lore. The lore is a good start. Example here: System Borders
Dots represent claimable bases (after a successful destruction of a current PoB like base) and borders are borders. If the "color blue" was to be destroyed by Rheinland military, then every NPC base and it's PoB will be replaced by rheinland counterparts. PoB owners can be asked to support the current regime or to be destroyed. Simple! They are civilian targets and they wont be the first target. If they dont acknowledge the regime, they can abandon it or keep supplying it.
This is just a template, of course things can be done differently and my ideas can be enhanced. However, my point is:
Players need to have an incentive to command a fleet and be a part of it. Countless community events and such are mediocre because they have nothing to attack nor defend, Which puts capital ships at a weird position where anyone can simply, avoid you. We can have pretty good experience by simply having a target that is stationary, give people something to defend or attack. Current game does not have anything that is remotely close to it.
Let us change the environment we live in, we trade in and we pirate in.
The risks of player-driven environment:
1- Wipeout of inactive NPC factions.
Honestly, this should be happening. Gaians are epitome of this, so i will start with them. Planet Gaia is lost, it will never come back. Their main reason to exist was to let Gaia be, as it is. Their "terrorist" attacks failed miserably. Gaia is ruined by enclave and Gaians lack firepower to take it back. They are useless, and nobody plays them. If people want to play an eco-warrior, they can do it by doing it in Bretonian Government ranks, just like in the lore.
If people wont play a faction, get rid of it. And well, if you are too conservative, here's the option: Factions will have X amount of bases that can not be destroyed further. More than that, it can be affected by players. So, with this way, non-player driven factions will shrink, and will make room for other factions, which attact players will have influence without damaging the diversity among factions.
2- Wipeout of Houses
Kusari is played less, and other houses can declare hostility towards it to get rid of it. However again, we can tell that "big" factions of the lore should have a main system that is unclaimable. Kusari can be destroyed to New Tokyo, but not there. It can defend it's homebase, and in-rp it makes sense. Just one system and a mighty house.
3- A big player group wiping out everything
Let them do it. It will just be like Roman Empire, where you grow so much, you will be vulnerable to attacks from every faction in sirius. Then it will collapse and you are left with nothing, all your efforts are lost, because you were too greedy. You will need to manage to defend and attack at the same time.
The benefits:
1- Every. Single. Player. Counts. Factions will go to newcomers and try to get them on to their faction. We will be at a state where old players respect newcomers because simply they need firepower and numbers. This will increase overall interaction and commitment to game. The barrier of entry to RP-driven universe of discovery is "MAXIMUM" high. With the help of faction recruiters, people will stay more, play more, devote their time more.
2- Diplomacy is here again. You will gather allies, make enemies and your actions will have consequences. A purger of universe wont gather any ally factions, and will see themselves overwhelmed soon if they act toxic. They will need to change, or not and steamroll every faction. However with hard-limits of how can they change the game, just like in real life, the Roman Empire will fall.
3- Every ship class matters. VHF and Bombers can disrupt big ships and hunt them and big ships will have something to defend/attack, where we will have mix of people. I mean just comparing it with current system, where you have no reason to ride a battleship, it is superior.
Thank you for reading if you have read to here. This game is something different where we can matter. We can change people's lives. Where you can act kind and get kindness in return, and where you act rude and see people rage. If we direct these actions on a player-driven environment, i think we will have the game of the century. I am looking forward to hear everyone's thoughts.
RE: How about this, regarding PoBs and impact of players - Champ - 06-02-2020
No. This is not that game. It's too chaotic.
But, I would encourage, and encourage our mod to enable you, to open your own server, based on Vanilla or preferably Discovery, and run that server this way. That way, anyone who wants this galactic conquest type thing could play it, and both alternatives would coexist.
Subsequent replies must not deviate from the topic, particularly to generalise this back to other threads. It is a particular proposition and if your post doesn't deal with it, your post doesn't exist.
RE: How about this, regarding PoBs and impact of players - darkwind - 06-02-2020
Omg. That's the wet dream of Core. We don't need it.
NEMP madness is already stopped
RE: How about this, regarding PoBs and impact of players - Binski - 06-02-2020
I'm not alone after all. Just a shamless self plug of a detailed backbone for a system we could use for a Discovery Faction Battle System.
It actually infuriates me to hear people say no no no, impossible here! I hate to say it but it wreaks of 'I'm afraid, I won't so eaily know what's going on, or I don't want to do more so I'll act like it could 't work.
I wish the time would come to try, and make the nay sayers have to deal for a while.
To the Devs: This issue will continue on until it is officially killed for good by a lead dev, or finally embraced in some way. We have all of the stuff in game for it, it might take 2-3 months to work out, and we'd be much better off afterwards. If the devs did give anything a try, once players know, it won't seem so impossible.
Because the OP is right when it states we need more to do that has some kind of effect on the world. We can set the world up to be more interactive in game, and in other ways assign RP value to planets/moons and systems so they can be used as excuses to get out and fly.
In that thread I posted, I made a post where I once passed by a couple of NPC crecy's in Cambridge. They were somehow set to 10 million HP, and upon firing at them, they went down. I posted screens but they seem to have been ...removed from the post. I just noticed it now, I'm positive I added the link for screens. I re-uploaded them here -> https://imgur.com/a/X2I79UQ, which proves that we can do this to NPC ships/bases.
Without adding much more, we can take existing stuff and certainly make them siegable. With more of such objects to play around, anywhere they are set becomes a potential battle zone. And at the very least, if a disputed area must be maintained by defendable ships to be kept under inrp control, people would mobilize like crazy to get busy protcting their territories, and going on incursions into their enemy's territory to go on the offensive.
People will have much more to do and try for with it. Repair ships are the key. Make them repair any base object generically, and every base can be equally attacked or repaired. Then even civilian corp factions or freelancers can keep RS's and jump in to help if they aren't the fighting type.
EDIT: Just to be specific, I support setting limits on wiping out factions which would probably still make wiping out houses impossible. But flexibility within border zones and the odd fortress deep behind secure space do make good targets, and with penalties for losing such bases, there is still something to fight for without gambling everything.
RE: How about this, regarding PoBs and impact of players - Monsieur Baguette - 06-02-2020
Too difficult to implement and too much pain for the devs and the poor plugin supporting POBS. Undermines the commercial role of POBs and limits them to certain areas. Will demotivate people using POBs even more as quite a few people engaged in inRP power play on Disco are not happy with losing assets and istead of posibility of losing will simply avoid it by not erecting POBs.
RE: How about this, regarding PoBs and impact of players - darkwind - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 05:21 AM)Binski Wrote: ...EDIT: Just to be specific, I support setting limits on wiping out factions ...
It becomes my favorite answer-quote to many mad suggestions
![[Image: PdUZx0k.png?1]](https://i.imgur.com/PdUZx0k.png?1)
RE: How about this, regarding PoBs and impact of players - sajuuk111 - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 05:21 AM)Binski Wrote: I'm not alone after all. Just a shamless self plug of a detailed backbone for a system we could use for a Discovery Faction Battle System.
It actually infuriates me to hear people say no no no, impossible here! I hate to say it but it wreaks of 'I'm afraid, I won't so eaily know what's going on, or I don't want to do more so I'll act like it could 't work.
I wish the time would come to try, and make the nay sayers have to deal for a while.
To the Devs: This issue will continue on until it is officially killed for good by a lead dev, or finally embraced in some way. We have all of the stuff in game for it, it might take 2-3 months to work out, and we'd be much better off afterwards. If the devs did give anything a try, once players know, it won't seem so impossible.
Because the OP is right when it states we need more to do that has some kind of effect on the world. We can set the world up to be more interactive in game, and in other ways assign RP value to planets/moons and systems so they can be used as excuses to get out and fly.
In that thread I posted, I made a post where I once passed by a couple of NPC crecy's in Cambridge. They were somehow set to 10 million HP, and upon firing at them, they went down. I posted screens but they seem to have been ...removed from the post. I just noticed it now, I'm positive I added the link for screens. I re-uploaded them here -> https://imgur.com/a/X2I79UQ, which proves that we can do this to NPC ships/bases.
Without adding much more, we can take existing stuff and certainly make them siegable. With more of such objects to play around, anywhere they are set becomes a potential battle zone. And at the very least, if a disputed area must be maintained by defendable ships to be kept under inrp control, people would mobilize like crazy to get busy protcting their territories, and going on incursions into their enemy's territory to go on the offensive.
People will have much more to do and try for with it. Repair ships are the key. Make them repair any base object generically, and every base can be equally attacked or repaired. Then even civilian corp factions or freelancers can keep RS's and jump in to help if they aren't the fighting type.
EDIT: Just to be specific, I support setting limits on wiping out factions which would probably still make wiping out houses impossible. But flexibility within border zones and the odd fortress deep behind secure space do make good targets, and with penalties for losing such bases, there is still something to fight for without gambling everything.
I read your post and your point is the same, and i think it is definitely the route discovery should take. However i am not familiar with technical differences and i cant blame people not incentivized to work on it. But this will solve all problems. Every faction will have something to do so people can really play them.
I was thinking of taking the baby steps first and enabling people to declare war on each other and have destructible bases at borders. That will show us how people will adapt to it and how it changes the battles and community. Wish i knew any kind of programming to propose that to developer team.
RE: How about this, regarding PoBs and impact of players - Binski - 06-02-2020
Best to star your own Fl server. By the here tally I'm finally leaving and giving up. Most players here can't handle anything more, and quickly vote against any desire for change to save their own buts from having to do anything more.