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My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle - Printable Version +- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums) +-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23) +--- Thread: My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle (/showthread.php?tid=181988) |
My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle - aerelm - 07-19-2020 So... unfortunately I've been having to bring this up as part of quite a few discussions with quite a few people involved in different areas of the mod, so I figured instead of havin to go through this over and over with each of em one by one, I'll just make a forum post about it to sum it all up in one place.
The general direction of the current dev cycle, be it ship, balance, system or what have you, seems to essentially be "Out with the old, in with the new", and that's fine, a place as stagnant as this does need things changed around and freshened up every once in a while... but to a moderate, sensible degree. It's one thing to go around the mod freshening things up, its another to outright dismiss all the time and effort previously put into the mod (both by devs and the community), toss it in the trash, and just replace it with something completely different - That's no longer freshening things up, that's just exploiting the shell of this mod to build an entirely different mod more conveniently than from scratch. Though there've been quite a few examples in recent patches, my actual concern is not with any one particular piece of equipment, asset, or system being ditched/recycled, it's more a general concern about the total disregard the current team seems to show for "legacy" of this mod, as it were. In my honest opinion, this mod is not, and at this point can never be a "marketable product" and yet the current team seems to be trying to apply a set of standards suitable to that around here, which I'm afraid will in the long run turn out to be disruptively disproportionate to not only the community's wants and needs, but also capacity and capabilities of the dev team itself. This is a bit of a wall-o-text, so let me break it down into 4 general points:
a very inefficient tl;dr of the whole post: Hi, in case you just scrolled down here thinkin this is just a typical "Change bad! Don't change anything!", that's not at all the point of this post. Change is much needed especially in the current stagnant state of the mod, so by all means do change all you want, but make sure the work you're putting into the mod builds upon what's already there, rather than knocking it all down and building in its place. That way, later down the line we'd have a mod twice as rich with actual, substantial content, rather than a mod that's been offering roughly the same amount of content for a decade cause for any one new toy that gets put in, an old one gets tossed... for whatever reason. RE: My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle - Lemon - 07-19-2020 I am a new player (just finished FL campaign) and I see beginners and new guys all over the place And I thank God I came now, with constant server events, tweaks, and devs focusing on gameplay improvements and local changes instead of grandiose stories. Sure some things feel a little rushed (WAR!) but they at least give us constantly fresh things to do. Keep up the good work And I agree that old shippies should be kept as alternate versions, or people given the option to choose. I feel that way about Kinetics as well for example. RE: My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle - Corile - 07-19-2020 I mostly agree, except for the second point. While some dev's work currently is legitimately impressive (i.e. Haste managed not to break the balance and ruin PvP for everyone like he has already done once <3), the player-facing stuff (systems and story) has been so awfully executed that it's not even funny at this point. I've already written about it in the GM feedback thread and that seems to have fallen on deaf ears (or at least nobody got back to me about it). Quality is important, and while in some places it is a little less important than others (seriously, if one gun has slightly better stats than other ones, it doesn't affect the lives of that many people) and we don't have to tune the knobs perfectly so that people are happy, in others it's been really, really bad lately. RE: My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle - Omicron - 07-19-2020 System devs are given set of directives to include. They may skew it to some extend, redesign or give it their own take on the subject but ultimately the final content is not their fault. It's what is required. The weapon balance however turned *everything* around instead of introducing some cooler stuff alongside the old for no good reason. RE: My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle - Groshyr - 07-19-2020 There should be a person observing them and synchronizing work of various departments, literally a manager of discovery dev team as well as somebody responsible for public relations. I mean, someone capable of public relations and negotiations with the community. RE: My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle - Toaster - 07-19-2020 (07-19-2020, 06:33 PM)Groshyr Wrote: There should be a person observing them and synchronizing work of various departments, literally a manager of discovery dev team as well as somebody responsible for public relations. I mean, someone capable of public relations and negotiations with the community. Just gonna say that I very much agree with this. RE: My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle - LuckyOne - 07-19-2020 Sounds to me like we've got a people problem... The solution is simple, remove all people! -_-' In all seriousness the current state seems like a frenzy of activity for a game that's been literally on life support for years. With the current corona-crisis and people going all in to relive their past happy times it presents an unique opportunity to improve and iterate on the good parts, and toss out the old parts that most people hate. But it has to be done really carefully because you should not get rid of your core community (no pun intended) for a seemingly large amount of people that came rushing through the door, but have little chance of sticking by in the long term. Change is necessary but the right product in the right time is also worth its weight in gold. Don't try to go for perfection, because perfection is an unachievable illusion and focus on the things that make a fun and engaging gameplay loop (it's important to listen to your testers here, and the people who have been here for a while and have seen the bad and good times of Disco). Get together and agree on a common vision of what the mod should focus on, then stick with it. Trust, me sticking with gameplay that "just works" and ensuring that new content is of consistent quality will go a long way in ensuring the longevity of the mod. RE: My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle - The_Godslayer - 07-19-2020 So, I have a very very small part of this that really grabs my attention, and that is story devs, as defined by this thread. Reading their personal RP and such, I can see that they're good at making stories, and that their RP for one person is enjoyable. However, as soon as we turn to large things, all of Kusari's wars, House events and stories and such, it falls apart. I'm not sure if this is the fault of uncooperative faction leaders, too many chiefs spoiling the stew, or simply not understanding group mentalities, or desensitization to political and societal flow, and if anything I think it is a mixture of each. These people can write stories for single people, but as soon as there's two or more groups involved, it becomes a mess. Kusari's wars against Rheinland, and now Gallia, which I partake/ have partaken in and therefore are a main focus of mine, have both been rushed. They would have happened anyway. With Rheinland and GMG having territory disputes, Kusari was bound to step in at some point. The war would have happened naturally, people would have partaken well, and it would have been a fun event in general. Instead, it was mostly botched, and became a war Kusari didn't want in the first place. With Kusari walking over the Taus, and being a threat in general, Gallia would have stepped in eventually. The might of a house causing chaos at their doorstep would have certainly brought enough concern to Gallia. The war would have been had, and there would be less oorp hate for Kusari invading poor babe Gallia who did nothing wrong, the fights would generally be filled with less toxicity, and the story would feel natural, like something that would have happened anyway. Kusari seeing passive Gallia and hurting Bretonia, and choosing to invade the Taus, an area rich in raw materials such as Niobium, which is used in shipmaking alloys in lore, would easily be a decision that would be made. They would have no regard for the inhabitants (CR), and Gallia would see a warring house running rampant at their borders, a threat to their security. The war would be had, it would be natural, there wouldn't be harsh feelings and hurt pps, and whatever is supposedly being achieved by the war now could easily be shuffled in to the deck of a more natural war. RE: My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle - Karlotta - 07-21-2020 I agree with the "don't do changes simply for the sake of change" part of the OP, in particular for changes that happen without bothering to ask or even care if the players impacted by it like those changes or not. Some examples are the taking of Aland, the Kusari invasion, and recent gun changes which basically force either slow or fast guns on factions, which seem to have happened literally with a "Don't like it? Ha! Deal with it!" attitude from the side of devs. Which exact "toys" being taken away the OP is really talking about is not really clear to me though. What I strongly disagree with is the part where staff shouldn't cater to new players. There are so many things that can be improved concerning the faster integration of newer players that have 0 negative consequences for older players (expanded and more visible help system, improved rule, law, and lore presentation), and they're not being done by staff and even held back by staff when other people do all the work for them. What a lot people here don't seem to realize is that not letting others contribute new things is just as disrespectful as removing/modifying their or other people's old contributions. What we need to do is find a way to have constructive conversations that will permit us to merge the new and the old and achieve the best outcome. Something that absolutely does not help in this is that one side demands they be put on a pedestal and make everything about who is popular enough with them to be allowed to contribute, instead of about achieving the best result possible. The latter can not be achieved without taking into account criticism and ideas from as many people as possible. RE: My Concern with the Direction of Current Dev Cycle - Hokan - 07-21-2020 (07-19-2020, 05:39 PM)aerelm Wrote: WoT Literally being one of rare kind, a new player, I'd like some elaborate on specific things you're referring to. If you would be so kind (07-19-2020, 07:00 PM)Toaster Wrote:(07-19-2020, 06:33 PM)Groshyr Wrote: There should be a person observing them and synchronizing work of various departments, literally a manager of discovery dev team as well as somebody responsible for public relations. I mean, someone capable of public relations and negotiations with the community. We have a Lead Developer. He's called Lanakov. |