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+--- Thread: [Economy] Smuggler ID is forced to haul only mid tier commodities (/showthread.php?tid=200132)
[Economy] Smuggler ID is forced to haul only mid tier commodities - R.P.Curator - 11-01-2023
Type: Balance
Bug: Smuggler ID is forced to haul only mid tier commodities with high risk
Reproduction Steps:
- The Smuggler ID is forced to haul mid tier commodities with high risk; without access to low tier or high tier commodities.
Taking into consideration:
- Neutral reputation to all (++)
- Use of Freighters and Transports only (-)
- 5K ship access (+)
- Can be pirated / stopped by any lawful/unlawful (-)
- Travel time - this includes avoiding lawfuls by not using trade lanes (/net detection and nodock restriction) (+/-)
- Most commodities trade routes are 1 way only with most of them leading to Omicron MU or Vespucci (-)
Why would I use this instead of a lawful 5ker?
- I cannot do a trade course > i.e.: Liberty > Bretonia > Gallia > Omicron Alpha > Liberty
- The only viable trade route is New Berlin > Edinburgh and that's a mid tier income route with high risk
- I can't do a trade route according to ID without flying empty at least 2 systems
- The ID is basically stuck at high risk - mid tier income per route
This would not be a problem, but let us get high tier income as well. We smuggle! That means everything, everywhere! Why can't we run the embargo in NL? Why can't we have access to Restricted commodities - Light Arms, Munitions, etc. Allow the ID to trade everything - so we can fly full cargo regardless- or give it a bonus on smuggling. If you're crippling it by restriction, at least give us a reason to get chased around the map. High risk, high reward.
And if you say: balance and equity to the community and player base, please read again all the things that have been posted in this bug report from an objective perspective. Ignoring the 2 weeks we spent doing nothing but smuggling cardamine. The contest was free for all to join and compete. But I'll delete this part later on an edit. Or not. I won this ID fair and square and I see no reason to play it.
RE: [Balance] Smuggler ID is forced to haul only mid tier commodities - Alex. - 11-01-2023
"- Use of Freighters and Transports only (-)" I don't think this is a legitimate negative for a smuggler ID.
"- Can be pirated / stopped by any lawful/unlawful (-)" - obviously preventing lawfuls stopping you is a non-starter, but do you really expect us to prevent unlawfuls stopping you?
"- 5K ship access (+)" this deserves two plusses.
"Why would I use this instead of a lawful 5ker?" Lawful 5kers by definition can't smuggle.
"- Most commodities trade routes are 1 way only with most of them leading to Omicron MU or Vespucci (-)" is I think a legitimate issue with the economy more broadly, not really specific to the Smuggler ID, though I grant you that's difficult to fix with the commodity limit on the Smuggler ID.
"Allow the ID to trade everything - so we can fly full cargo regardless- or give it a bonus on smuggling. If you're crippling it by restriction, at least give us a reason to get chased around the map. High risk, high reward." because then what you'd have is a Sirius-wide ID allowing 5k transports and able to carry lawful cargo, avoiding any risk from lawful players. The 5k allowance would then have to be removed, at which point you may as well return to the Freelancer ID.
RE: [Balance] Smuggler ID is forced to haul only mid tier commodities - R.P.Curator - 11-01-2023
Hello,
1: Most of the points I've presented are limitations / descriptions of the ID
2: IDs owned on the server: 5 (if the ID is not sold in RED station, thus available to everyone)
3: All I asked is an objective consideration of the ID in the current and future economy. Smuggling was always mid-tier income with some exceptions - Xeno Relics and Cardamine (Cardamine run by Junkers/Freelancer or anyone else who can dock in any Liberty base and carry something back on the return). The rest of the illegal commodities were high risk-mid tier reward. Mining and legal trading were always high-end pay - mid risk if not low risk. Currently, the market is not screaming for XR. And Cardamine is mid tier income for a trip Omi-Alpha > Texas with BM Pharma return, I'll make a profit of 670K top after flying 1 hour.
4: This is the only counter-counter-argument I'll make, more because I do want this ID improved than its current state: Lawful 5kers can't smuggle by definition - this applies to factions only and a few players who take RP too serious. Most have indie 5kers with which they smuggle - and smuggling is not restricted to illegal commodities, it can include breaching an embargo (see Dublin Gold), carrying restricted cargo (Light Arms). For everything else regarding trading, see point 3.
5: The ID itself is of no use at this moment (with the exception of events or player requests), and if the illegal commodities don't increase in price/route, will continue to be so. It doesn't matter I can dock in Omicron Mu on the Wild base, if I travel 30 minutes to get there with the entire server chasing me for a profit of 100-200K. I'll just switch to an indie 5ker or Zoner 5ker.
RE: [Balance] Smuggler ID is forced to haul only mid tier commodities - Demonic - 11-01-2023
(11-01-2023, 08:22 PM)R.P.Curator Wrote: [snip]
...this applies to factions only and a few players who take RP too serious...
[snip]
Imagine that, taking RP seriously on an RP server. Seriously what's with all the people thinking in cash / time category and nothing else?
RE: [Economy] Smuggler ID is forced to haul only mid tier commodities - Petitioner - 11-01-2023
The Smuggler ID is a gimmick ID. It is not intended to be mechanically "good", economically "viable", or "overpowered". It is, in fact, deliberately underpowered. It is a (semi-)unique gimmick. There are, what, four or five people on the entire server who have the Smuggler ID? If you don't want your cool unique gimmick prize, you're absolutely free to sell it to someone else, and since there's only three or four other people who have one, you could literally charge 1bil post-deflation for it and nobody could tell you it isn't a fair price, I'm sure you'd get someone buying it even.
RE: [Economy] Smuggler ID is forced to haul only mid tier commodities - Major. - 11-01-2023
Will buy it, but only for 10 mil
RE: [Economy] Smuggler ID is forced to haul only mid tier commodities - Levenna - 11-01-2023
For me, personally, I've greatly enjoyed the unique RP aspect of a 5ker that's largely neutral to most factions and, of course, smuggling. I definitely take that over optimal credits/hour. It allows me to RP something I would otherwise need an SRP for.
RE: [Economy] Smuggler ID is forced to haul only mid tier commodities - R.P.Curator - 11-02-2023
(11-01-2023, 09:36 PM)Petitioner Wrote: The Smuggler ID is a gimmick ID. It is not intended to be mechanically "good", economically "viable", or "overpowered". It is, in fact, deliberately underpowered. It is a (semi-)unique gimmick. There are, what, four or five people on the entire server who have the Smuggler ID? If you don't want your cool unique gimmick prize, you're absolutely free to sell it to someone else, and since there's only three or four other people who have one, you could literally charge 1bil post-deflation for it and nobody could tell you it isn't a fair price, I'm sure you'd get someone buying it even.
Aren't you a forum moderator? Why do you allow a bug report to become a flood thread?
RE: [Economy] Smuggler ID is forced to haul only mid tier commodities - Karst - 11-02-2023
Good point. This really isn't a bug report.
Moved.