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+--- Thread: Culture, anyone? (/showthread.php?tid=25147)
Culture, anyone? - Mr.Fabulous - 08-19-2009
We all know that the many countries here in the Sirius system are not realistically matched. In the days of Vanilla, the rank from lowest to highest ships & equipments were the ff: Liberty, Bretonia, Kusari, Rheinland and Hispania.
I know that there are already many ships, equipments and designs that have helped improved the situation to make the countries seemingly "balanced", but there are still some tweeks. Here's an example:
The Rhino and the Clydesdale are both "technically" of the same rank, but they have SIGNIFICANT differences in all forms: from armor, nano/batt count, to the cargo space available (most significant to traders though).
The Discovery Freelancer team has made so much effort to make this game a great success, thank the divines for that; but I think it would be greater if the Human race in this sector had some sort of classification structure to manage the limits for a type of ship to be in its class.
An example would be like this:
For freighters, there are 3 classes of them: light, medium or heavy. The light ones, like the Rhino, Clydesdale, or other ones like them, would have more or less the same amount of techs, but that the country they are manufactured from would put their cultural trademarks: the Rhino of Liberty would be a runner-ship with a relatively minimized cargo space, but increased speed, cruise-engine-charge time and turning rate, yet have smaller armor, shield power, energy power, turret count and bot/bat count; while as the Clydesdale of the Bretonians, seeing as they like to have BIG, STRONG SHIPS, would have a bigger cargo space, armor, shields, energy, turrets and bot/bat count, but at the expense of speed.
Then the Medium-class would be the MKII version of the Light, and it also holds the same for the Heavy.
This is just my idea. I really would love to be able to fly a ship, an example like the Mammoth, that really gives the spirit, differences in tactics and advantages/disadvantages of the manufacturing country in every model they make.
Thanks for reading...
Culture, anyone? - kikatsu - 08-19-2009
Actually these changes to the Clydesdale have already been done
Her cargo has been increased to 560 and her armor is stronger than a Titan
I do not know of the other house freighters though. It would be nice to see some tweeking to the freighters though....they need more love.
Culture, anyone? - Belco - 08-19-2009
i'd like the vanilla ships to be changed to be comparable to each other just so NPC's would be similar levels in all houses.
it'd be a bit more realistic i think.
Culture, anyone? - Mr.Fabulous - 08-20-2009
But according to piloting skills, the Clydesdale is only SLIGHTLY slower than the Rhino, which means that the Clydesdale is actually BETTER than the Rhino in terms of travel time, and it doesn't have more defense capabilities (ex: more turrets, or at the very least the armor is TWICE the armor of the Rhino). What would be great is that both ships would differ in both speed, defense capabilities AND THEN the cargo, like this (the important changes are yellow):
The Rhino:
Guns/Turrets: 0/4
Opt. weapon class: 3
Max. weapon class: 5
Additional equipment:
* 1xCM
* 1xM
Hull strength: 5000
Max. shield class: 3
Cargo space: 225
Nanobots/Batteries: 12/12
Max. impulse speed: 80 m/s
Cruise Charge Time: 6 seconds (more or less the default time)
Max. thrust speed: [depends on Liberty Thruster] 200-250 m/s
Additional information:
Ship price: $51,500
Package price: $53,270
The Clydesdale:
Guns/Turrets: 4/8
Opt. weapon class: 3
Max. weapon class: 5
Additional equipment:
* 1xCM
* 1xM
Hull strength: 12500
Max. shield class: 3
Cargo space: 550
Nanobots/Batteries: 24/24
Max. impulse speed: 40 m/s
Cruise Charge Time: 15 seconds
Max. thrust speed: [depends on Bretonian Thruster]100-125 m/s
Additional information:
Ship price: $52,500
Package price: $55,270 (unsure)
So I would say that the pair belong to the Light Freighters, but that the two have major differences: the Libertonian Rhino has lower armor, guns, shields and nanobots, but at least they compensate it with their high-speed and short cruise-engine charge time. The Bretonian "big" Clydesdale, however, is the "patient, beast of burden" that its name implies.
Understand now? They both have their advantages and disadvantages, so the country they are manufactured from will determine the style they have in both combat and trading ability. More or less the two are the same in class, but have been specialized so that they fit the culture of the country they are manufactured by.
The reply here is for Kikatsu. You roly, however, I agree with you. The house factions should be more or less the same in class, but the stronger ships nearer to the capital system, or nearer to important sights.
Culture, anyone? - MarvinCZ - 08-20-2009
You are using some old data... If it's the Disco wiki, not all ships are updated there.
Clydesdale is currently a full-blown "Mk.II" freighter. Rhino remained a beginner ship, while the Grizzly took the role of a Liberty Mk.II freighter. There are Mk.II freighters for all the houses, plus the Bactrian, Dromedary, whatever the Corsair one is called and some others ...
Edit: Actually, Clydesdale seems updated on the Wiki: http://discoveryfl.com/wiki/index.php?title=Clydesdale
Quote:Guns/Turrets: 3 / 5
Max. weapon class: 8
Additional equipment: CD, CM, M
Hull strength: 12,500
Max. shield class: 6
Cargo space: 560 units
Nanobots/Batteries: 80/80
Max. impulse speed: 80 m/s
Max. thrust speed: 199 m/s
Ship price: $1,598,000
Package price: $1,603,150
Culture, anyone? - Canadianguy - 08-20-2009
I just updated that http://discoveryfl.com/wiki/index.php?title=Freighters page on the wiki if you need to compare freighter.
You can see there that the only house ship that look like it has not been buffed is the humpback. The Rhino has been buffed about to the humpback lvl but its still cheaper. The Clydesdale has been buffed and the drone too so they have similar stats to other ships.
Culture, anyone? - Mr.Fabulous - 08-20-2009
Actually, what I meant was that (ONLY AN EXAMPLE FOR THE FREIGHTERS) the pair would be beginner ships so that people who begin in different systems can have that feel that they are eventually going to represent that country they have chosen.
So if you wanted to be a Libertonian, you could get the Rhino as your first freighter, while the Clydesdale, Drone and Humpback are for the Brets, Kus, and Rheinland, respectively. I wanted them to, as I have said "technically", all MKI ships. I don't really have much technical know-how to explain a full report, but you get the idea. In other words, if you have tried to make a Rhino and Clydesdale fight one-on-one, you would see that they have entirely different strategies:
The Rhino would be faster, more agile, but with less armor, shields and weapon power, while as the Clydesdale would be a ship that would be best to stay stationary and work as a "moving weapons platform". Then in trading, the Rhino would take half the time to get from one system to another, but the Clydesdale would compensate that for a larger cargo space.
I would've appreciated that when the noob has gained enough experience exploring their country and earning some dough in their chosen ship (MKI light fighter, freighter, etc.), they can then be safe in the knowledge that they don't have to look for a better ship by exploring the entire Sirius system when they can just look in their own backyard. This way, it could help make that country's independent economy to flourish by domestic choice of purchase (you know, when their citizens buy locally-made goods instead of imported items, which would not only be a good thing for spurring up that country's economy, but it would also help instill some nationalism in the process, that the citizens would be proud that the goods they have made themselves tell what their culture is, and that they themselves are competitive and creative).
Don't you think?
Culture, anyone? - Mr.Fabulous - 08-20-2009
Oh yeah... If your next replies would be about, "That's unrealistic! The ships that we have right now are already properly placed because of corporate competition. The other models are just not popular, so freelancers aren't buying them", then I also have my own answer: domestic competitiveness.
You know, when the country that's being "invaded" would try to replicate, or at least adapt, imported ships (as the example ships, the Rhino), since the Clydesdale is currently right now an MKII ship, which would make a total monopoly for the Libertonians in the beginner sector.
Now, the Brets "fight" back by creating their own model of the Rhino so that future beginners that wish to buy a beginner-ship would not rely on an imported good, but instead their citizens would purchase the Clydesdale as the beginner ship, giving the Bret shipyards a fighting chance in the monopoly (take note that this example is for beginner Bretonian citizens. The same could apply for Libertonian citizens, just interchange the ships)
All I'm saying is that all of the countries have their own trademarks for beginner ships, mid-game ships, and veteran ships, so that the country would have a sense of identity, knowing that the normal Libertonian Trader would be piloting a Bretonian Clydesdale simply because it is a better ship is already blasphemy:)(and this is where OORP comes in... Awkward!!!!)
And this is my answer to such a question.
edit: oops... a little mistake there... changed a sentence here and there
Culture, anyone? - Canadianguy - 08-20-2009
Actually, the rhino is THE beginner freighter.
Usually, when someone decides to get out of Liberty, its that he has money to get something good.
I actually think all freighters should be about as good as the Clydesdale and most other freighters except for the Rhino and the Mule since in the first case, its the most used freighter due to its low price and the Mule since a MK2 mule exists (the Bactrian)
What I mean is that admins should Buff the Humpback so its about as good as the clydesdale and create a MK2 Rhino.
And no the Grizzly is not actually a MK2 Rhino.
Its sold only on LPI bases and is used as a Riot Van/Missile Boat/Mobile Command center
Culture, anyone? - Mr.Fabulous - 08-20-2009
Tensions in the colonies are high right now. Bretonia is up against Kusari, and Liberty is just about ot unleash its nukes on Rheinland. The need for organization and identity has never been greater.
Imagine the awkwardness when a noob trader is forced to abandon his trade route in Rheinland when he is actually a sprouting Bretonian trader in a Libertonian vessel. The relations between Bretonia and Rheinalnd are neutral at best, so the two SHOULD BE ABLE TO TRADE. That goes the same for Libertonians with Kusarians (unless the Kusarians are still seperating themselves from the galaxy; I was recently shooed off for being a "foreigner")
Also, it would be logical to have a beginner ship in EVERY COUNTRY, so as there wouldn't any be discrepancies in knowing that Bretonians can stay in Bretonian ships, and Libertonians can stay in Liberty ships.