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cap ship limiting - Printable Version

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cap ship limiting - Lohingren - 11-24-2007

okay i am prepared for the worse here and have opened myself up to as much flaming as you like.

but i was thinking about maybe adding a rule as to how many Cap ships can be used in a raid/battle.

now this will be a tough one to enforce and will be a rather drastic change as to how things are done but i do think it is a issue that needs to be brought up. ok here is what i think, i think that there should maybe be a rule implemented as to how many cap ships can be used in a fight or battle. now i know things will need to be sorted out as to what the limits may be and i know this may have already been brought to the attention of the server before.

i think doing this would

A. Stop a lot of Cap ship whore accusations
B. make fights a lot more enjoyable
C. make Role playing a lot more in sync with battle's
D. just plain old make things a lot better when it comes to battles

i would suggest something around the lines of 3 gunboats 2 cruiser's and 1 battleship per battle. yes a very small amount but i do think that this is very reasonable RP ratio's for a battle. it will force a lot more fighter's into fighting and it will make unfair battle's a thing of the past in my opinion. now yes as i said earlier it will be a very hard rule to enforce.

and i do understand that people do not like fighters (which i have no idea why the things are awsome) but it is a thing i feel really needs to be brought to attention.

now take this scenario for example

Team A = 5 gunboats 3 cruisers and a battle ship
Team B = 1 gunboat 2 destroyers and 0 battleships but with numerous fighter's

i think Team B is a lot more in role than Team A for the simple reason that it is Just way over powered and very cheap way to win a battle.

now all you gunboat pilots and cruiser/battleship pilots out there are probably thinking of the best way to flame me at this point in time for bringing about such blasphemy but i do believe that you can have your turn at flying your beloved gunboat when you want to do as such. hell it will also become more realistic when you have lets say 10 corsair's in Crete 4 of which are gunboats, 3 of which are cruisers and 2 of which are battleships. this would force the corsairs to leave some men behind to help DEFEND Crete in case of another group going in behind the corsair invasion party.

it would make battles more RP like also and more attuned to the npc's way of fighting yes i know we aint computer characters we are player's but the npc's are the best RP'ers around here because of the way they do battle.

this is all i really have to say for now *opens up for wide spread of flame* ok hit me boy's n gal's

Lohingren Out

PLEASE NOTE: just a suggestion people please do not take this to the extent that it gets out of hand i would like this to be a nice civil descussion not a OMG YOU ARE A IDIOT HOW DARE YOU COMPRAMISE MY BEUTIFUL BS'S FUTURE!?!?!?!?

cap ship limiting - I_m_rdy - 11-24-2007

I support Lohingren's idea, and want to post some more fleet formation ideas:

A big, but fair fleet should compose of this:

1 Battleship
2 Cruisers
4 Gunboats
4 Bombers (These are devastating, me and Equinox destroyed an Osiris with two Bombers)
At least (!) 6 Fighters (It has to be that much when the fleet is so big)

Why at least? Prevents capship whoring. Too much bombers are pretty much not useful, when the enemy capships are destroyed and the scene consists of fighters (this excludes ace bomber pilots).

A Cruiser fleet should be this way:

1 Cruiser
2 Gunboats
2 Bombers
At least 4 Fighters

And at last, the Gunboat Fleet:

1 Gunboat
1 Bomber
At least 2 Fighters

I think these compositions are very much RP, and I hope they can be a guideline for us.

BTW, I'd say Team B would win, if there are bombers among the fighters.

cap ship limiting - [RoS]silent_assasin82 - 11-24-2007

How would it work. Would it count per side in a battle. What if there is more than 1 Faction on either side. would there be disagreements on who takes what. Or are we talking per faction here. If this is the case then we would just have idependant chars bringinng thiere ladies to the dance.

I have been looking at pages of history. Trying to gaine information on the tradtional numbers in a fleet and that fleets escort to try and help descide on a fair approch if anything is to come of this. But there is alot of information.

And i do think I m rdy is heading along the right lines so lets see if we can build on this and not just have a flamming contest

cap ship limiting - I_m_rdy - 11-24-2007

Thanks, Silent. And yes, I'd say this should count per side in battle, or people call their allies in the other corner of Sirius to assist them in a place, where they actually shouldn't be. I also set up a list of jobs the ship classes are supposed to do plus a brief description of the classes:

Light Fighters: Anti-Heavy Fighter Class, very agile so it can't get hit that easily

Heavy Fighters: Pretty much useless, since it's less agile than LFs, but less powerful than VHFs

Very Heavy Fighters: Main Fighter attack class. Are good against their own, but skilled pilots can take a LF, and in groups even a Gunboat

Super Heavy Fighters: Can take VHFs, but is too bulky for lighter ships

Bombers: Anti-Capship vessels, probably the deadliest ship class. 2-3 skilled Bomber pilots can even take a battleship

Gunboats: Anti-Fighter vessels, the most used ship class since the Cerb turrets are overpowered. Can take a Cruiser and even a battleship in groups
NOTE: For RP's sake, Gunboats are anti-fighter vessels, not all-round pocket knives for everyone!

Cruisers: Anti-Gunboat vessels, one of the least used ship classes. With Flak turrets equipped also anti-Fighter

Battleships: Anti-Cruiser vessels, often for checkmate moves of factions in battles. Has Anti-Fighter capabilities with Flak turrets


This was all, apologies if this starts a flamefest. Just remember we are doing this for the sake of the enjoyment of all people.

cap ship limiting - P*Funk - 11-24-2007

Really I think this kind of thing has to be implemented. I mean even the RP doens't make sense when you ahve a BS 4 GBs and 1 fighter invading Alpha on a whim. What kind of Battleship captain goes out to war without alot of fighters? The fighter is the basic weapon around here. It should be reflected in the battlegroups.

cap ship limiting - Lohingren - 11-24-2007

good question bro as i m rdy said it would have to be per side why?

well if it was the case then independents would still have free reign on what ship they could use thus making things no different due to the mass amount of capital ship's used are by in fact that the independents of the group's.

we would have exhibit A. our forces flying the Silent Edge and

Exhibit B. a incomes a independent outcast also flying a outcast dreadnought

so it would have to be per side for this to make any difference to what things are now. plus as i m rdy also said it is easy enough for

Faction A. to go hello my fellow ally mind bringing your fleet in now

Faction B. Why of course my old chap we will be there in a jiff


now as you can see above two perfect examples of 2 scenario's that would cause problems still if it was to be per faction

----------------------------------------------------

now for your second point how would such joint efforts be carried out when trying to find who flies what. this is also a touchy issue. we would have to work as allies and agree as allies on who flies what and who should pilot what, this will probably be concerning the two commanding officers of said Factions agreeing on who flies what ship.

take this for example i shall be using your name in a mock situation i m rdy

Lohingren being commanding officer of RoS

I m rdy being commanding officer of mock faction


we would decide who flies which ships on each side according to personal pref and skill's

we have 10 men on RoS and 5 men on mock faction

i would suggest 1st taking out out most skilled gunboat pilots and we would select out of the current ones skills etc



cap ship limiting - Treewyrm - 11-24-2007

' Wrote:Gunboats: Anti-Fighter vessels, the most used ship class since the Cerb turrets are overpowered. Can take a Cruiser and even a battleship in groups
NOTE: For RP's sake, Gunboats are anti-fighter vessels, not all-round pocket knives for everyone!
For gunboats to be anti-fighter they should be anti-fighter technically. Currently they seem to be better against capital ships than fighters. In order to change that gunboat weapons must be lowered down in damage but have increased projectile speed and re-fire rate to catch to fighter speed/maneuverability/laginess. In other words: anti-fighter gunboat should deal enough damage to kill fighters and have projectile speed enough for it to do quick. However personally I think that gunboats should have two type of weapons generally: high-speed low-damage anti-fighter, and slow-speed high-damage anti-cap. Thus people can choose which one fits them best.

cap ship limiting - Sonja - 11-24-2007

I like the idea, but one scenario strikes me as being a problem that cannot easily be overcomed.

For instance, Faction A is attacking Faction B.

Lots of people log in, such as independants, and without asking as is the case in most engagements, they simply engage. In capital ships.

Does that whole side get the blame? It is pretty hard to type when you're in the middle of a firefight, so it's not like they would be stopped by their own side.

In principle, this rule sounds good. In practice, it is flawed and only adds another rule for which people will complain about in-game or similar. And hence, more work for the admins.

cap ship limiting - I_m_rdy - 11-24-2007

' Wrote:For gunboats to be anti-fighter they should be anti-fighter technically. Currently they seem to be better against capital ships than fighters. In order to change that gunboat weapons must be lowered down in damage but have increased projectile speed and re-fire rate to catch to fighter speed/maneuverability/laginess. In other words: anti-fighter gunboat should deal enough damage to kill fighters and have projectile speed enough for it to do quick. However personally I think that gunboats should have two type of weapons generally: high-speed low-damage anti-fighter, and slow-speed high-damage anti-cap. Thus people can choose which one fits them best.
Well, that's when Gunboats become all-rounders. No ship should be such, it ruins the atmosphere IMO. Me and Lohingren are currently talking over Skype, we agreed that Gunboats should generally be Anti-fighter with slight Anti-Cap support. And 1400 m/s is quite fast IMO, faster than most weapons out here.

cap ship limiting - mjolnir - 11-24-2007

I don't really think it need a rule to force it -

if you check how the TBH/RM war went everyone stopped using capships because they got killed so easily. The KNF/QCO war is already going in the same direction.


A force of 3 bombers can take any number of unescorted capships without a big sweat, back them up with 4 fighters and you kill caps with escort, after that it will be down to the fighters + bombers remaining.