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+--- Thread: Question about the 'Warn before kill' piracy rule (/showthread.php?tid=7960)
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Question about the 'Warn before kill' piracy rule - Fletcher - 04-21-2008
All right, as far as I am aware, if a pirate tells me "Stop/halt/cut engines" as a warning, and you refuse to stop, I can understand that pirates are 'allowed' to tear into them. This I understand and fear.
Now I want to know is there a sort of time limit from the first warning before you open fire? 10 seconds? It is usually down to the individual I think.
Whether you call this a complaint or a honest question is up to you, but here is what happened to me.
I just came through the Frankfurt Jumphole and arrived in Sigma-13, I was exploring the systems, I headed for New Berlin Jumphole. Then soon after in cruise my radar showed a player ship, a corsair ship. I literally thought "Oh bugger this can only go well". I won't say the name but I will tell if you ask me.
mno
He tells me "edison hold :=)^" as I saw this, about half a second for me to react I hit the cruise engine button to deactivate. Almost instantly as I press and no joke, I was space dust. He blew me up within 0.5 seconds of the warning.
While I understand if he asked for money and I refused to pay after warngin he blew me up, I have no quarrel with that, part of trading. But blowing me up straight after a warning? Isn't this exploiting the warn then shoot rule?
_____
After that I expressed my annoyance to him and I quote from the chat from what I screen shotted:
*after respawn*
Me - I did hit the stop button, very fair
Corsair - Sorry
Corsair - Trigger happy ship
Me - But you killed me with little time to react to warning
Corsair - How is that wrong?
Me - Because I hit the stop button and you took half a second after the 'warning' to fire
Me - You had no intention of letting me live
Corsair - of course i did i wonted to tax you:)
Corsair - now i get nothing:(
Me - Some tax strategy
_____
I understand there are pirates that tax, I know that if I don't stop after first warn I am open season I know this and as some pirates know I leg it while dumping CM's and I am a legal rp wise target. But in this case I was attacked immediately after the warning, giving me no time to react, stop or even alter course.
I think this is a grey area in the rule that needs to be clarified, since it can be and I think has been exploited.
Feedback?:unsure:
EDIT: At the time I had no cargo just in case that is going through your mind as justification, all he could loot was my 70 Imp. countermeasures.
Question about the 'Warn before kill' piracy rule - Fellow Hoodlum - 04-21-2008
Right, if its a sanction you want, put it in the requisite thread, if not, as pointed out earlier today,
lets call it a day on the 'trial by forum' that is becoming the norm around here.
The rules are entirely clear on this
Quote:6.19 Pirates and terrorists have a right to deal as much damage as they see fit before or after demandingAnything not crystal there ?
money from a trader ship, but killing trader ship before demanding money is not allowed. Attacking traders
or demanding cargo is not allowed for cruisers and battleships, unless cruisers and battleship belong to
Terrorist ID or Phantom ID owner.
Hoodlum
Question about the 'Warn before kill' piracy rule - Fletcher - 04-21-2008
' Wrote:Right, if its a sanction you want, put it in the requisite thread, if not, as pointed out earlier today,The reason I didn't put it into the rules violation thread is because I wasn't sure if it was or wans't a violation of the rules, thats why I asked Fellow Hoodlum. I would rather get something correct than waste time, especially admin time.
lets call it a day on the 'trial by forum' that is becoming the norm around here.
The rules are entirely clear on this
Anything not crystal there ?
Hoodlum
I do not wish to start a 'trial by forum' I was wondering if it is or isn't breaking the RP rules.
Question about the 'Warn before kill' piracy rule - Muleo - 04-21-2008
The rules are somwhat ambiguous, as a full time pirate I can tell you the rules are not crystal clear.
I can tear up a ship as much as I want before a demand, as long as I don't kill.
I have to make a demand, then theres no time limit that I have to wait for before I kill him.
This loophole lets pirates kill traders by 'demanding tax/cargo' but without expecting/wanting the trader to comply.
Question about the 'Warn before kill' piracy rule - timmychen - 04-21-2008
' Wrote:Right, if its a sanction you want, put it in the requisite thread, if not, as pointed out earlier today,
lets call it a day on the 'trial by forum' that is becoming the norm around here.
The rules are entirely clear on this
Anything not crystal there ?
Hoodlum
What if you wanted cargo? Could you demand cargo and kill them if they refuse to drop any? "but killing trader ship before demanding money is not allowed." <--Rules - they mention money, but not cargo. Clear up on this gray area?
Question about the 'Warn before kill' piracy rule - Fellow Hoodlum - 04-21-2008
You guys are really looking for loopholes ain't ya ? Is it a full time occupation ?
Cargo, money ? Would sort of fall into the same category really, unless of course you were looking for an
excuse to blow traders away with little reason than to be able to claim a kill.
Be very careful what you wish for, if we have to start re-writing reams of rules, we will be very unforgiving
on the enforcement of them. We allow a little give and take here because we like to think we can trust one
or two of you to use a little common sense.
That would appear, possibly not to be the best course of action now.
Hoodlum
Question about the 'Warn before kill' piracy rule - Athenian - 04-21-2008
Fletcher, the rules are clear on this, as Hoodlum has pointed out. If this happens, get a screenshot. If someone breaks the rules, report them in the appropriate thread.
It might be an idea to read the rules yourself and familiarise yourself with the ones that apply here.
Demanding cargo=demanding credits=demanding a tax; if you demand it and they refuse, then you can destroy the ship. Its poor RP for the trader though. This is your life youre talking about.
It's best to RP as much as possible. Try to avoid getting into a big long discussion about the rule breaking when you should be playing. Frankly the RP in the pirate demand looked pretty poor, but you are going to find this on the server so long as people are prepared to put up with it.
PLUS it would be nice if pirates tried to engage in a little RP before opening up; a little I said, a lot would be ideal. There's a section on this in the rules. Read it. You'll enjoy playing on the server more if you make the most of every encounter with other players, REGARDLESS of what they are.
Quote:This loophole lets pirates kill traders by 'demanding tax/cargo' but without expecting/wanting the trader to comply.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this? If people are exploiting loopholes in the rules so they can kill traders why play on a RP server at all as a pirate? Why not just get a terrorist i.d. and kill everything on sight?
Question about the 'Warn before kill' piracy rule - Muleo - 04-21-2008
Quote:PLUS it would be nice if pirates tried to engage in a little RP before opening up; a little I said, a lot would be ideal. There's a section on this in the rules. Read it. You'll enjoy playing on the server more if you make the most of every encounter with other players, REGARDLESS of what they are.
Please come to the Omegas if you want to be pirated properly ^^
Question about the 'Warn before kill' piracy rule - Athenian - 04-21-2008
Or Cambridge for that matter...:)
Question about the 'Warn before kill' piracy rule - Vero - 04-21-2008
If he never demanded money (or cargo, anything of value really) before destroying your ship, that is a clear violation of the rules on his part.
As others have stated before saying halt does not cover the demand for money
My suggestion is explain to him where he went wrong in private chat so he wont do it again. Private correction from a fellow player hurts less than public correction by an Admin.
If he is apologetic and understanding; let it go and move on.
If he is belligerent about it or denies wrongdoing; (and if you have screen shots of the incident) then put in a sanction report.