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+--- Thread: Unofficial factions in relation to official factions (/showthread.php?tid=9714)
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - Jihadjoe - 06-24-2008
I am not going to relate this post to a specific event, however I just need to get a comunity concencus. I may talk about the event that inspired me to ask this question later.
We all know that system owning official factions have hegemony over non system owning official faction (if they're from the same group... eg outcasts)
However, how do those factions then relate to unofficial factions?
Most unofficial factions choose to answer to orders issued by official factions from the same group, however some don't. Now, that is fine if their roleplay is somewhat out of the ordinary in some way (breakaway group etc) but is it ok just as a matter of course?
Also, is it ok for an unofficial faction to answer to one official faction and not another?
Please, if you know about this particular occurence could you avoid talking directly about it. All I want here is some kind of clarification on the subject not an epic flamefest. Cheers guys.
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - Zapp - 06-24-2008
I think it depends on the RP, though some respect should be shown. Let's say someone started a special wing of the LPI - they'd have to at least respect my position as Deputy Chief, though depending on what they were RPing, they may or may not have to listen to my orders.
Like my completely non-related example, as I know what you're talking about?
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - obnoxious1 - 06-24-2008
As I understand it, it all is about role play & the story lines each group has set for itself in regards to it's begining storyline when entering into the game. Regardless of approved faction or group attempting to do such.
Thus is why alliances are formed to make a better understanding of what each group may expect from another.
Least thats how I understood it..
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - sovereign - 06-24-2008
Suppose within a faction's structure Rank A has authority over Rank B. (Admiral > Commander, for instance.)
If an individual is doing a decent job of RPing a member of Rank A, well enough the people around him say "yeah, his rank is Rank A" rather than "oh that idiot", and there is another individual who is doing the same for Rank B. The Rank A individual gives an order to the Rank B individual, who has a few options:
1) Follow the order as befits the rank structure.
2) Ignore/defy the order. The Rank A individual can then reasonably order the Rank B individual to report to a base for court martial or whatever, and shoot them if they refuse.
3) Declare the order illegal (no ordering people to break server rules) and defy the order. At this point, the RP thing to do is have one or both parties (the Rank B player in particular) dock, exchange contact details for skype or the forums, and work it out.
4) Follow the order grudgingly, then go to the forums/skype to:
A) Figure out the proper thing for next time and/or talk to the other person about the issue.
B) Bitch about it, often utilizing the staple "faction oppression" or "idiot indies" argument patterns.
1 and 4A are best.
Note that this is completely irrelevant whether or not the individuals are in server factions, official or otherwise. I don't care. Members of official factions tend to have consistently solid roleplay enough to fulfill the preliminary qualification for this example, but not always, and plenty of indies do too. Not important. This is a generalized thing that doesn't change if one guy is tagged and one isn't, if they fulfill the qualifications above, in RP they have their ranks and should know where they fall.
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - n00bl3t - 06-24-2008
If you roleplay a semi-Force H structure then you should be left in peace. As you are roleplaying, and this is what everyone wants to see.
What happens is when someone feels a lack of control, and roleplays that you're an opposing faction's spy, etc and decides to invoke superior firepower against your VHF.
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - Jihadjoe - 06-25-2008
Ok, lets just clarify my position on this.
I (when roleplaying as my Outcast, Juan Zavala) roleplay a position the character has earnt through long and dedicated, competant service. This isn't something I have had form the start with this character. My actions when roleplaying him have given him that. I hold the rank of grand reaper, and I am part of the governing council of the RoS (we have a leader but most decisions are made by the council).
The RoS being a military organisation within the Outcasts, this gives me (in rp) authority over others in outcast space... Not all people by any means. For instance, the 101st command, I take orders from them. Most are courtious enough to ask rather than demand, as the reapers do not fall under their direct command, however no matter what the tone, if a high ranking 101st member asks me to do something, I will on the whole do so as they hold the title of system owning faction and whether I like it or not (frequently don't;)) they have a certain degree of hegemony over my command.
Unofficial factions I regard as being lowewr down the foodchain then offical factions. So, if as my RoS character (High ranking within both the outcasts as a whle and particularly the RoS) issues an order, then within roleplay it must at least be respected.
My characters in other factions (including indies) follow the same ideas. I am a low ranking Xeno within the XA, and I take orders willingly. My SA character is extremely low ranking, and thus he takes orders. My indy characters (I choose not to reveal them here as I have plans for lots of roleplay with them very very soon...) take orders from the members of official factions as they are higher in the command structure than I am.
I don't like to start characters as generals or people in a position of power. I prefer to earn that, through experience and commitment and service. Indies like Laowai for the corsairs have done this while remaining an indy, and I say thats awesome. However when I see (from any perspective not just the incident that caused this thread to start) unofficial factions, badmouthing and disrespecting official ones, who roleplay is approved by admin concencus, it makes me rather cross. Its something that I would never do.
People can have different opinions to me and thats fine. People don't have to live by my rules for me to get on with them, but I do like to understand peoples reasoning behind their behaviour.
This post is not a dig at anyone in particular as it makes me equaly angry when factions just badmouth indies and say none of the have roleplay and should be forced out of whatever they have decided to do.
As I have said in other threads, this is never about gaining power over another individual, but it about respecting that which is already in place. At the same time the established authority should have time and patience and open mindedness towards new ideas and roleplay, perhaps tempering them with their opwn experience.
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - n00bl3t - 06-25-2008
' Wrote:Ok, lets just clarify my position on this.
I (when roleplaying as my Outcast, Juan Zavala) roleplay a position the character has earnt through long and dedicated, competant service. This isn't something I have had form the start with this character. My actions when roleplaying him have given him that. I hold the rank of grand reaper, and I am part of the governing council of the RoS (we have a leader but most decisions are made by the council).
The RoS being a military organisation within the Outcasts, this gives me (in rp) authority over others in outcast space... Not all people by any means. For instance, the 101st command, I take orders from them. Most are courtious enough to ask rather than demand, as the reapers do not fall under their direct command, however no matter what the tone, if a high ranking 101st member asks me to do something, I will on the whole do so as they hold the title of system owning faction and whether I like it or not (frequently don't;)) they have a certain degree of hegemony over my command.
Unofficial factions I regard as being lowewr down the foodchain then offical factions. So, if as my RoS character (High ranking within both the outcasts as a whle and particularly the RoS) issues an order, then within roleplay it must at least be respected.
My characters in other factions (including indies) follow the same ideas. I am a low ranking Xeno within the XA, and I take orders willingly. My SA character is extremely low ranking, and thus he takes orders. My indy characters (I choose not to reveal them here as I have plans for lots of roleplay with them very very soon...) take orders from the members of official factions as they are higher in the command structure than I am.
I don't like to start characters as generals or people in a position of power. I prefer to earn that, through experience and commitment and service. Indies like Laowai for the corsairs have done this while remaining an indy, and I say thats awesome. However when I see (from any perspective not just the incident that caused this thread to start) unofficial factions, badmouthing and disrespecting official ones, who roleplay is approved by admin concencus, it makes me rather cross. Its something that I would never do.
People can have different opinions to me and thats fine. People don't have to live by my rules for me to get on with them, but I do like to understand peoples reasoning behind their behaviour.
This post is not a dig at anyone in particular as it makes me equaly angry when factions just badmouth indies and say none of the have roleplay and should be forced out of whatever they have decided to do.
As I have said in other threads, this is never about gaining power over another individual, but it about respecting that which is already in place. At the same time the established authority should have time and patience and open mindedness towards new ideas and roleplay, perhaps tempering them with their opwn experience.
It sounds like you "ordered" someone to patrol a certain area and they refused, join you on a raid, etc.
Seriously, if someone orders you to do something that you don't want to do, log off and come back when they're gone.
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - obnoxious1 - 06-25-2008
I'd like to ad a response & make it understood I am not flaming & have no intention of doing so, just trying to express a point of view. It may even end up as I am mistaken & will gracefully & humbly apologize if pointed out.
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The RoS being a military organisation within the Outcasts, this gives me (in rp) authority over others in outcast space... Not all people by any means. For instance, the 101st command, I take orders from them. Most are courtious enough to ask rather than demand, as the reapers do not fall under their direct command, however no matter what the tone, if a high ranking 101st member asks me to do something, I will on the whole do so as they hold the title of system owning faction and whether I like it or not (frequently don't wink.gif ) they have a certain degree of hegemony over my command.As you stated, yours is a military group. Thus taking commands from a military structure & doing very well in the RP part of it as far as I have seen. But in relation to my 'un-official' factions role play, We are not part of the military. We do however have an agreement with the 101st in our role play & do abide by their orders per our agreement. Our group is a organized collection of Outcast pirates & assassins with an elected leader who all basically freelance out to contractors. Thus in our view in the role play scheme, would not take orders from anyone unless it was part of a contract agreement. We posted this as such in our introduction & again on various groups forums. We are, however, usually happy to oblige requests if asked to assist any friendly to our group. But making demands, ordering us around & trying strong arm tactics would more than likely be met with a sour response. In affect, it would be the same as a General walking into your civillian home & telling you to walk through a mine field. Your basically going to tell them where to go & how to get there.
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Unofficial factions I regard as being lowewr down the foodchain then offical factions. So, if as my RoS character (High ranking within both the outcasts as a whle and particularly the RoS) issues an order, then within roleplay it must at least be respected.Being polite as I can.. This is a pompous statement & one would be lead to believe from that view that if your not an official faction, your a peon in the game & have no say in anything (Thats how I read it anyway)
Now I certainly respect the fact your group is an Officially Sanctioned Faction, but I seem to lose that respect after reading that. In role play, as well as in life, your earn respect, not demand it once you achieved some goal. As far as orders issued in role play, Again, this would have to also be inline with both groups story lines. It shouldn't matter whether a group is official or not as long as the role play fits with both groups story lines.
Elsewise, it would be utter chaos & no one would keep an interest in playing.
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I don't like to start characters as generals or people in a position of power. I prefer to earn that, through experience and commitment and service. Indies like Laowai for the corsairs have done this while remaining an indy, and I say thats awesome. However when I see (from any perspective not just the incident that caused this thread to start) unofficial factions, badmouthing and disrespecting official ones, who roleplay is approved by admin concencus, it makes me rather cross. Its something that I would never do.I agree with you with the start up of a character idea, work your way up. I have done my time in lower character form from the day I started playing in discovery until I was elected by my peers in my group to the command position. I do not however understand where you get the idea your group was badmouthed? If it was from one of the members of our group Please by all means PM me with a screen shot of the text & I will deal with the person (most likely remove them from group). To my knowledge, the only thing said during any encounter was " Im tired of the ROS trying to give us orders" That group member was dealt with. Yet only expressed what most of us felt. Being told to do this & that & yet not being any part of the military as stated earlier to us seemed like being bullied by larger group because they have status.
I would have much rather have worked this out in pm's or as stated on your forums, in a closed form of communications, to try to smooth out any differences & work out a compromise. But open forums works as well & would give more input.
again.. my views of the situation & my 2 cents worth...
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - Unholy1 - 06-25-2008
I agree With Obnoxious1 ,
Ok , first off in roleplay we take orders from who which we are contracted from, not just any group. Yes I can see your point about "un-official" groups giving "official" factions respect, and as far as I have ever seen we have. We did not have to according to our roleplay status , but we did. Before all of this ever started we were, raiding , pirating , and even practicing with your guys .
Why was nothing said then ? Why is it all the sudden we are the enemy ?
Quote:Unofficial factions I regard as being lowewr down the foodchain then offical factions. So, if as my RoS character (High ranking within both the outcasts as a whle and particularly the RoS) issues an order, then within roleplay it must at least be respected.
So you are saying if you are not in an "official faction" you have no say what-so-ever in how (your own) character should be played?
I mean sure you look up to factions in your area, and most of the time give them a hand if needed, but that is your choice. You should not be "bullied" around by them every time you log on to your character just because they have a " badge " and you don't.
Quote:I don't like to start characters as generals or people in a position of power. I prefer to earn that, through experience and commitment and service. Indies like Laowai for the corsairs have done this while remaining an indy, and I say thats awesome. However when I see (from any perspective not just the incident that caused this thread to start) unofficial factions, badmouthing and disrespecting official ones, who roleplay is approved by admin concencus, it makes me rather cross. Its something that I would never do.
Yes building your own reputation in a system and earning your power is great , I'm all for it .
But I would like to know and see the screens shots as obnoxious says when we have ever "bad mouthed" your group ?
But anyways I was wandering have you even read our Group history here in the forums ?
Maybe if you did you would understand why we do not answer to the " military " fields unless either contracted to or by basically being a "nice guy' and helping out.
We are a group of pirates and freelancers that grouped together to bring malta back to the old ways.
We are no part of the military at all.
I was also wandering we both as groups official or not have "roleplay" stories behind us correct ? Alright , if our story doesn't involve being under your command , in the theory of roleplay why should we bow down to you ? Because if I am not mistaken this server is all about roleplay not which group should bow down to whichever group claims them first. In our story it's about contracts , as Ive said if we want to help you guys out without one that is our choice to be that way not yours .
In the nicest way I can put it , I think this is all a waste of time , because some group didn't get the attention they wanted and is now being a bit childish about it to drag the other group down .
But thats only my opinion on this .
Capt.Unholy1
Unofficial factions in relation to official factions - n00bl3t - 06-25-2008
So JihadJoe is talking about SOB?